Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 09-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #81
Usernames sucks
Registered User
 
Usernames sucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Norway
What scale is used in this Bjørk song?
__________________
Original fusion metal song:
http://m.soundcloud.com/kjartan-thorkildsen/euphoric
ORIGINAL PROGRESSIVE METAL SONG:
https://soundcloud.com/kjartan-thor...fe-in-purgatory
Usernames sucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:42 PM   #82
griffRG7321
Forever Bulking
 
griffRG7321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Darkplace Hospital
It really, really doesn't matter.
__________________
Quote:
Mario 'Big Dawg' Williams: "I come to you, venerable master, in order to be introduced to the rules and principles of music"

Barbeesha Latoya Jackson: "Awh hell naw mutha fuka, u wanna learn da art of composition all up in here?
griffRG7321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:51 PM   #83
TMVATDI
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Idk about you guys, but I think my reply was perfect. Hmph.
TMVATDI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:58 PM   #84
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMVATDI
Idk about you guys, but I think my reply was perfect. Hmph.

You the man, man. You the man.
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:58 PM   #85
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.

Last edited by Hydra150 : 09-03-2012 at 07:48 PM.
Hydra150 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 04:59 PM   #86
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
86
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 05:01 PM   #87
griffRG7321
Forever Bulking
 
griffRG7321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Darkplace Hospital
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMVATDI
Idk about you guys, but I think my reply was perfect. Hmph.


I actually liked your reply!
__________________
Quote:
Mario 'Big Dawg' Williams: "I come to you, venerable master, in order to be introduced to the rules and principles of music"

Barbeesha Latoya Jackson: "Awh hell naw mutha fuka, u wanna learn da art of composition all up in here?
griffRG7321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:31 PM   #88
bouttimeijoined
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
I'll say what I've concluded after dozens of conversations on this matter of modes.

I would not like to argue exactly what makes a song or part of a song modal vs. tonal. But I am confident that the modes are very useful to describe and analyze many songs today.

When collaborating on songs with others, it's often much easier to use the mode names to describe things. If I have a chord progression that uses the notes of a mode and resolves to the root chord of that mode, then it's easiest to use the mode name to describe it, compared with saying for example, it's in D minor with this and that raised and flat. That way it helps understand the feel of the song. For example, a lot of people know what phrygian sounds like, so if I say this riff is in E phrygian, they can catch on quicker than if I said it's E minor with a flat second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMVATDI
Idk about you guys, but I think my reply was perfect. Hmph.


That modality and tonality are types of analysis, not types of music, was a good point and has been well received.

I would still say that modes are not a useful tool to describe certain songs.
bouttimeijoined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 07:47 PM   #89
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouttimeijoined
When collaborating on songs with others, it's often much easier to use the mode names to describe things. If I have a chord progression that uses the notes of a mode and resolves to the root chord of that mode, then it's easiest to use the mode name to describe it, compared with saying for example, it's in D minor with this and that raised and flat. That way it helps understand the feel of the song. For example, a lot of people know what phrygian sounds like, so if I say this riff is in E phrygian, they can catch on quicker than if I said it's E minor with a flat second.


do you also say if it's in 4/4? does that tell them what the rhythm is?

in this day and age, if you need to explain something, it's far quicker to show, record->send->have them listen, or just pull up the tablature

music isn't created in scales. if it happens to come out in the E phrygian scale, so ahead, but most of the time it's a lot more complex than that, at least if we're dealing with a full piece of music that consists of more than 3 chords and a verse->chorus
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:00 PM   #90
bouttimeijoined
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
do you also say if it's in 4/4? does that tell them what the rhythm is?

in this day and age, if you need to explain something, it's far quicker to show, record->send->have them listen, or just pull up the tablature

music isn't created in scales. if it happens to come out in the E phrygian scale, so ahead, but most of the time it's a lot more complex than that, at least if we're dealing with a full piece of music that consists of more than 3 chords and a verse->chorus


Right so I play it or send a recording and also say, to give a real example: the verse is A dorian, E dorian and E minor. The chorus is in E. The bridge is in F# mixolydian and returns to the chorus by 8 bars in E and 4 in E minor. Then I'd play it and point out the changes and name the chords if needed.
bouttimeijoined is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:29 PM   #91
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouttimeijoined
Right so I play it or send a recording and also say, to give a real example: the verse is A dorian, E dorian and E minor. The chorus is in E. The bridge is in F# mixolydian and returns to the chorus by 8 bars in E and 4 in E minor. Then I'd play it and point out the changes and name the chords if needed.


nigga, what?
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2012, 08:31 PM   #92
griffRG7321
Forever Bulking
 
griffRG7321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Darkplace Hospital
bouttimeibetrollin'
__________________
Quote:
Mario 'Big Dawg' Williams: "I come to you, venerable master, in order to be introduced to the rules and principles of music"

Barbeesha Latoya Jackson: "Awh hell naw mutha fuka, u wanna learn da art of composition all up in here?
griffRG7321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 02:07 AM   #93
Usernames sucks
Registered User
 
Usernames sucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Norway
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffRG7321
It really, really doesn't matter.

Well, i dont know if it really matters or not, but i think its intresting.
__________________
Original fusion metal song:
http://m.soundcloud.com/kjartan-thorkildsen/euphoric
ORIGINAL PROGRESSIVE METAL SONG:
https://soundcloud.com/kjartan-thor...fe-in-purgatory
Usernames sucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 03:31 AM   #94
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouttimeijoined
Right so I play it or send a recording and also say, to give a real example: the verse is A dorian, E dorian and E minor. The chorus is in E. The bridge is in F# mixolydian and returns to the chorus by 8 bars in E and 4 in E minor. Then I'd play it and point out the changes and name the chords if needed.


I'd just stick to the chords mate, even people who understand modes would not know what you are talking about.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 10:20 AM   #95
J-Dawg158
UG's Resident Dhampyr
 
J-Dawg158's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
I'm a little late to the party, but whatever. Modes is an antiquated idea that has found it's way back into modern practice by way of people that attempt to sound like they know some ancient secret to music.

Modes take the idea that if you have a major scale and start on a different note then you have a mode. This notion was correct before the advent of equal temperament when the actual intervals between notes were not the same for every semi-tone. However, since equal temperament makes it to where the intervals between all semi-tones are the same, this definition is pretty much worthless. People use this meaning all the time, but fail to understand that we use a different tuning system than when this definition was established.

Besides, modes have always been more of a melodic thing i.e. one vocal line. Once you start to add harmony to it that is when tonality takes over, hence the rationale that modality is primative and evolves into tonality.

In my opinion, it's much simpler to just establish a key center and anything outside of that is considered an accidental. Perhaps it's just the misnomer of the term accidental that turns people off from this line of reason, I don't really know. it's not to suggest the note is an accident guys, but the point is I find everything easier to understand with one key center, one scale as opposed to switching modes every chord or however it is the lesson writer of the day teaches it.

My two cents. Critique away MT.
__________________
I'm an
Engeneer
Enginear
Enginere

I'm Good at Math
J-Dawg158 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 10:24 AM   #96
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
I'm a little late to the party, but whatever. Modes is an antiquated idea that has found it's way back into modern practice by way of people that attempt to sound like they know some ancient secret to music.

Modes take the idea that if you have a major scale and start on a different note then you have a mode. This notion was correct before the advent of equal temperament when the actual intervals between notes were not the same for every semi-tone. However, since equal temperament makes it to where the intervals between all semi-tones are the same, this definition is pretty much worthless. People use this meaning all the time, but fail to understand that we use a different tuning system than when this definition was established.

Besides, modes have always been more of a melodic thing i.e. one vocal line. Once you start to add harmony to it that is when tonality takes over, hence the rationale that modality is primative and evolves into tonality.

In my opinion, it's much simpler to just establish a key center and anything outside of that is considered an accidental. Perhaps it's just the misnomer of the term accidental that turns people off from this line of reason, I don't really know. it's not to suggest the note is an accident guys, but the point is I find everything easier to understand with one key center, one scale as opposed to switching modes every chord or however it is the lesson writer of the day teaches it.

My two cents. Critique away MT.


Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #97
GuitarMunky
I play guitar n stuff
 
GuitarMunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: on your back
^



I"m pretty damn sure though.
__________________
shred is gaudy music

Last edited by GuitarMunky : 09-04-2012 at 10:47 AM.
GuitarMunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 10:47 AM   #98
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150

this,+1, good post, 10/10, would quote self again.
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #99
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008

Just cuz...
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 11:04 AM   #100
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarMunky
^



I"m pretty damn sure though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
I'm a little late to the party, but whatever. Modes is an antiquated idea that has found it's way back into modern practice by way of people that attempt to sound like they know some ancient secret to music.

Modes take the idea that if you have a major scale and start on a different note then you have a mode. This notion was correct before the advent of equal temperament when the actual intervals between notes were not the same for every semi-tone. However, since equal temperament makes it to where the intervals between all semi-tones are the same, this definition is pretty much worthless. People use this meaning all the time, but fail to understand that we use a different tuning system than when this definition was established.

Besides, modes have always been more of a melodic thing i.e. one vocal line. Once you start to add harmony to it that is when tonality takes over, hence the rationale that modality is primative and evolves into tonality.

In my opinion, it's much simpler to just establish a key center and anything outside of that is considered an accidental. Perhaps it's just the misnomer of the term accidental that turns people off from this line of reason, I don't really know. it's not to suggest the note is an accident guys, but the point is I find everything easier to understand with one key center, one scale as opposed to switching modes every chord or however it is the lesson writer of the day teaches it.

My two cents. Critique away MT.


feel free to tell us what's wrong about this beyond "boxes are normal, dude, you should be playing boxes duh"
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.