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Old 09-04-2012, 05:21 PM   #21
Thomas Zane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirelazarus
Also, no matter how much theory you know, you are only as good as your ear.

I learned that the hard way...

Haha yes of course, I'm pretty lucky that I transcribe a lot and practice my ears like a mad man as well, I love the feeling of: YES I GOT!

And I'm doing all kinds of crazy stuff, haha.


1.Creating chord progressions in Guitar Pro and putting them on my phone to listen and learn.
2. Transcribe solo's or licks I like
3.When I'm not at my guitar, trying to figure out which notes or note sequence is being played when some kind of music is around and instead of 'thinking' I let my mind figure it out.
4.Identifying intervals in alarms or phone ringtones, haha.


I love doing all of this, but I want to give all of this a name so it's easier to digest.
It's like Scientific things in ----> Brain ----> Inspiration out.

Discovering why I like certain songs with the power of theory, you can dissect every piece and love it even more.

Last edited by Thomas Zane : 09-04-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:40 PM   #22
vampirelazarus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Zane
Haha yes of course, I'm pretty lucky that I transcribe a lot and practice my ears like a mad man as well, I love the feeling of: YES I GOT!

And I'm doing all kinds of crazy stuff, haha.


1.Creating chord progressions in Guitar Pro and putting them on my phone to listen and learn.
2. Transcribe solo's or licks I like
3.When I'm not at my guitar, trying to figure out which notes or note sequence is being played when some kind of music is around and instead of 'thinking' I let my mind figure it out.
4.Identifying intervals in alarms or phone ringtones, haha.


I love doing all of this, but I want to give all of this a name so it's easier to digest.
It's like Scientific things in ----> Brain ----> Inspiration out.

Discovering why I like certain songs with the power of theory, you can dissect every piece and love it even more.


Thats great man, good luck. Currently, I can only identify intervals, and thats.... well, I tested myself earlier today and got 79/100 correct, so Im definitely improving...

Its also awesome that you understand that theory is descriptive, not perscriptive (to qoute another regular here)
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I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:00 PM   #23
Thomas Zane
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Originally Posted by vampirelazarus
Thats great man, good luck. Currently, I can only identify intervals, and thats.... well, I tested myself earlier today and got 79/100 correct, so Im definitely improving...

Its also awesome that you understand that theory is descriptive, not perscriptive (to qoute another regular here)

Thanks! You also good luck, music is amazing!
Do you have any Software tips to test the Intervals? I'm using Ear-Master but I'm open for suggestions.

Yes theory is just a way to describe the stuff you are doing and what is going on.

I think ear-training is some kind of magic, it's a logical proces but it's amazing that your brain works it out for you, as long as you feed it the correct data it will 'spit out' the stuff you want it to spit out. Great stuff.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:28 PM   #24
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I use one on my phone. Interval Recognition Trainer or something like that.

Everyone else suggests the functional ear trainer off miles.be
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Quote:
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I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:35 AM   #25
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This song (and question) are a prime example of why guitarists need to know Signature Keys.

The first clue is that there is a C chord. A Natural C only occurs in two Keys: C and G.

The second clue is that the Chords of the IV and V Intervals of a Major Key are naturally Major chords, so the C and D point to the Key of G Major.

The expected Chords of the Key of G Major are: G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#dim.

The A is played out-of-Key (i.e. any chords of a Key except the Root can be switched from Major to minor and vice versa).

The answer is the Key of G (Ionian mode - no Modal shifts going on here).

I do not know the song, but it is typical of John Mayer's stuff, where he creates an initial ambiguity as to the Signature Key.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:13 AM   #26
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^that's the longest-winded way i've ever seen to say "i'm clueless", considering the sheet music (which i'm staring at) is in the key of d major

let's go through this, cause someone may actually gaze with awe at the amount of words you've pumped into this cluster**** and take it as gospel

1. what the hell is a "signature key"

2. "the first clue" to what is that there's a c? let's take the main progression:

dsus2|a/c#|Csus2|Bm
dsus2|a/c#|Csus2|G

what would indicate that this is in g? the reasoning "oh there's a c" is the most myopic and pointless view imaginable, because that's the only note here that doesn't fit just fine into d major - all that's occurring here is chromatic motion in the bass (GIANT HINT: THAT'S WHY THE A CHORD ISN'T IN ROOT POSITION)

3. "the second clue" is just as bad, considering that, you know, the entire progression revolves around d major and that chromatic motion

look at the progression, which begins on I and contains a vi at measure four and a IV at measure 8

the way you have it, each set of four bars would begin on V, measure four would end on a iii and measure eight would be a I, so yes, you'd arrive at the tonic at the end of a progression only to resolve to a non-tonic chord for the progression to begin (GIANT HINT #2: THAT'S RIDICULOUS AND INCORRECT)

4. "the expected chords blah blah blah"...why is that any different from the only out of place chord being the csus2?

that whole line of reasoning is simply indicative of a wrong person creating a wrong environment in which wrongness can thrive and eventually become right, reverting right to wrong and vice versa

see?

5. edit your post, don't know what you're attempting to prove by deliberately emboldening an insistent declaration of complete misinformation and summation of an entire torturous journey into the mind of the illogical

"better try to look smart, let's throw in a term like modal shift"

6. "i don't know the song"

way to go, that's a surefire way to start off well

7. "it is typical of john mayer's stuff"

this couldn't be further off-base, see my point a few lines above

"better try to look smart, let me try to appear familiar with his material by vomiting forth a generalization based on absolutely nothing"

i presume you teach, yikes - go refund, well, everyone

that entire post consists of little more than an acute attack of keyboard diarrhea whereby you took a shot in the dark with quite literally no information and jazzed it up with tons of crap and musical buzzwords in a poorly veiled attempt to distract from the fact that nothing in the post is correct save for "i do not know the song"

this is a long post and i've stayed up quite late, but jesus

i would've capitalized and whatnot, but i simplify couldn't justify the extra wear and tear on my shift key given that the activity in question was responding to this absolute atrocity of a post
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:03 AM   #27
gteacher
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Listened to the song. Yes - clearly played around the Key of D, and not too sure why question needed to be asked in the first place? However, I commented on the chords as presented in the original post. I can play against this song Rooting for G. Can you? Try it, you may learn something? Sorry for causing you to throw a hissy-fit.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:58 AM   #28
mdc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gteacher
I can play against this song Rooting for G.

Are you talking about these chords?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Zane
Intro: (2x)
D5 A/C# C Bm
D5 A/C# C G/B

Verse: (2x)
D5 A/C# C Bm/G
D5 A/C# C G/B

Chorus:
D5 A/C# C Bm/G
D5 A/C# C G/B
D Bm Em7 A
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:48 AM   #29
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My final post on the subject. Happy to help and debate, but not to have my 35 year career called into question.

Yes, those chords.

The difference between the Keys of G and D is - G has an F#, while D has an F# and a C#.

Otherwise, the common notes of the Keys of G and D are G, A, B, D, E - i.e. the notes of the G pentatonic. The D pentatonic would give us an F# to play with instead of the G.

D5 = D + A
A/C# = A + C# + D (I can pick-up the C# as an addition to the pentatonic, or omit it, but the point to note is that C# is not present in the D pentatonic either!)
C= C + E + D (C is not in the D pentatonic, but it is in the G)
Bm = B + D + F# (I can pick-up the F# as an addition to the pentatonic, or omit it. The F# is present in the D pentatonic).

I think the point I am attempting to make is that it depends on how you look at something as to what you see. There are few instances where the answer is black and white. Being a good guitarist is dependant upon an ability to see possibilites.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:55 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by gteacher
Yes, those chords.

k.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gteacher
The difference between the Keys of G and D is - G has an F#, while D has an F# and a C#.

Otherwise, the common notes of the Keys of G and D are G, A, B, D, E - i.e. the notes of the G pentatonic. The D pentatonic would give us an F# to play with instead of the G.

that's "the difference"? this is completely astray from the actual issue, and fails to cite the difference between the keys that actually makes your answer incorrect

your entire list of common tones between the keys and whatnot is once again little more than a dance around the point, because for some reason you won't entertain the possibility (actuality) that the c natural is the note that "doesn't belong"

"few instances where the answer is black and white"?

what does that even mean aside from "i've been doing this a really long time, so there's no way i can be wrong, better throw in some cryptic axiom to screw with everyone"

the answer is black and white, and that's why key signatures exist
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by :-D
the answer is black and white, and that's why key signatures exist

You mean signature keys.
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:32 PM   #33
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silly me
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:14 PM   #34
mdc
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Yes, silly you. You should know better as to how these oldies view us "young'uns". Have respect for your elders.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #35
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The first clue is that there is a C chord. A Natural C only occurs in two Keys: C and G.


And F.

A major chord can always be from 3 keys - the I of one, the IV of another and the V of another. C could be the V of F.

gteacher, while the guys here could definitely have been nicer about it, you're blatantly wrong on many points. If you don't want your career called into question don't make it look so questionable.
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