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Old 09-08-2012, 09:31 AM   #21
Eppicurt
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
No man you're not getting my point; the more power it has, the more volume it needs to actually give it its all.

No man, you're not getting my point at all. Wattage has nothing to do with it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:37 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by AxSilentxLine
Huh?


Let's say you've got a 500w tube amp next to a 50w combo. They've both got the same settings and the same amount of gain at a low volume; let's say at 1. The 50w combo is going to (theoretically) sound better because it's not meant to be played at blasting volumes. On the other hand, if you've both of them turned to 10, the tube amp is going to sound a whole lot better and clearer because it can handle that much out put and is built for loud volumes. I would not recommend putting a 500w tube amp at 10.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Let's say you've got a 500w tube amp next to a 50w combo. They've both got the same settings and the same amount of gain at a low volume; let's say at 1. The 50w combo is going to (theoretically) sound better because it's not meant to be played at blasting volumes. On the other hand, if you've both of them turned to 10, the tube amp is going to sound a whole lot better and clearer because it can handle that much out put and is built for loud volumes. I would not recommend putting a 500w tube amp at 10.

None of this makes any sense.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Let's say you've got a 500w tube amp next to a 50w combo. They've both got the same settings and the same amount of gain at a low volume; let's say at 1. The 50w combo is going to (theoretically) sound better because it's not meant to be played at blasting volumes. On the other hand, if you've both of them turned to 10, the tube amp is going to sound a whole lot better and clearer because it can handle that much out put and is built for loud volumes. I would not recommend putting a 500w tube amp at 10.

While it may seem it would work that way, it really does not. I have heard tube amps that sound great at 3-4 but like ass on 8-9. It really comes down to the design of the amp.

What your describing is powertube distortion, like an old Marshall Plexi non-master volume amp.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Eppicurt
None of this makes any sense.


Dude I'm not trying to argue it's a God given fact. Tube amp heads with high wattage do not sound AS good when the volume is lowered on distortion channels. If it doesn't make sense you can leave it or try it yourself.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:43 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Let's say you've got a 500w tube amp next to a 50w combo. They've both got the same settings and the same amount of gain at a low volume; let's say at 1. The 50w combo is going to (theoretically) sound better because it's not meant to be played at blasting volumes. On the other hand, if you've both of them turned to 10, the tube amp is going to sound a whole lot better and clearer because it can handle that much out put and is built for loud volumes. I would not recommend putting a 500w tube amp at 10.

You're working on the premise that TS wants power tube saturation, and and amp that's 500W is built that way to AVOID tube saturation. It's about headroom, but we're way off topic.

A 120W Peavey/Mesa/Marshall/ENGL etc at volume 1 is going to sound better than a 5W amp on 10 95% of the time because the gain is coming from the preamp.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Dude I'm not trying to argue it's a God given fact. Tube amp heads with high wattage do not sound AS good when the volume is lowered on distortion channels. If it doesn't make sense you can leave it or try it yourself.

Oh I've tried it and I've achieved it. And I have gotten good sounds at lowered volumes.

You haven't played very many amps, have you.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Eppicurt
No man, you're not getting my point at all. Wattage has nothing to do with it.


That is true to an extent. Most tube amps do inherently sound a little better with the power tubes cooking a little.

Also, speakers do play a major role.

However; I think one thing that a lot of people have overlooked is the characteristic of the gain that the TS is looking for. Level of gain and the characteristic of the gain are 2 different things.

You can use a 6505 to play Steve Vai, but the sound you'd get is anything but Vai's sound.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:47 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ragingkitty
That is true to an extent. Most tube amps do inherently sound a little better with the power tubes cooking a little.

Also, speakers do play a major role.

However; I think one thing that a lot of people have overlooked is the characteristic of the gain that the TS is looking for. Level of gain and the characteristic of the gain are 2 different things.

You can use a 6505 to play Steve Vai, but the sound you'd get is anything but Vai's sound.

Yeah TS is after a more liquid smooth gain which a 6505 won't do well but a V3M should get there. Either that or trade in for a Vai Legacy
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #30
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It depends on the amp. I don't notice too much difference on 1/2 and 3 on my ENGL. And 3 is pretty loud enough. Also I never said speakers didn't play a major role? I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not...

I did ask if he was happy with the distortion sound, but he never answered me.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Eppicurt
Oh I've tried it and I've achieved it. And I have gotten good sounds at lowered volumes.

You haven't played very many amps, have you.


Well it's the reason why everyone's got a different tone and preference; I was simply pointing out a possible factor that might be affecting the way he's hearing the gain. I work in the studio; I think I know enough about amps.

Pretty ironic coming from someone telling others not to be jerks, man.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Well it's the reason why everyone's got a different tone and preference; I was simply pointing out a possible factor that might be affecting the way he's hearing the gain. I work in the studio; I think I know enough about amps.

Pretty ironic coming from someone telling others not to be jerks, man.

But it's simply not true...you said a higher wattage gave a heavier sound. That is not true.

I don't care where you work. It's still not true.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Eppicurt
But it's simply not true...you said a higher wattage gave a heavier sound. That is not true.

I don't care where you work. It's still not true.


Regardless of whether it's true or not (which again, depends on the amp), I didn't say a higher wattage gave a heavier sound. I don't give a shit about what you think and you shouldn't give a shit about what I think either. Just trying to help the guy out.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:58 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Dude I'm not trying to argue it's a God given fact. Tube amp heads with high wattage do not sound AS good when the volume is lowered on distortion channels. If it doesn't make sense you can leave it or try it yourself.
So that's why every high-wattage amp sounded better than every low wattage amp I've played at lower volumes, rite?

That's why every amp I've played with a wattage selector sounded best at it's highest wattage setting, rite?


Looks to me like you're full of shit.





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Old 09-08-2012, 10:01 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ragingkitty
However; I think one thing that a lot of people have overlooked is the characteristic of the gain that the TS is looking for. Level of gain and the characteristic of the gain are 2 different things.


Man the V3 bandwagon made it so far before someone finally said something haha.

I LOVE Carvin. I LOVE all the features the V3 has for the price. I HATE the fizzy high gain sounds. The V3 has plenty of gain, but its nothing special. It's one hell of an amp for the price, but if you care mostly about heavy stuff over features its really not that great of an amp.

Stretch your budget a little more and you can reach a used Mesa Mark IV Combo. Or a head.

It may even have less gain than the V3, but if you play it you will know it doesnt matter. It is so tight.. And the clarity.. Progressive heaven.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Regardless of whether it's true or not (which again, depends on the amp), I didn't say a higher wattage gave a heavier sound. I don't give a shit about what you think and you shouldn't give a shit about what I think either. Just trying to help the guy out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shornifier
If it's 50 watts and you're not getting a heavy enough sound, there's obviously something wrong.

It doesn't depend on the amp. It is not true!

Also;

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:13 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Shornifier
Regardless of whether it's true or not (which again, depends on the amp), I didn't say a higher wattage gave a heavier sound. I don't give a shit about what you think and you shouldn't give a shit about what I think either. Just trying to help the guy out.

Actually you did say that

And just because you work in a "Studio" doesent mean anything........especially when your wrong
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by mespinos
Man the V3 bandwagon made it so far before someone finally said something haha.

I LOVE Carvin. I LOVE all the features the V3 has for the price. I HATE the fizzy high gain sounds. The V3 has plenty of gain, but its nothing special. It's one hell of an amp for the price, but if you care mostly about heavy stuff over features its really not that great of an amp.

Stretch your budget a little more and you can reach a used Mesa Mark IV Combo. Or a head.

It may even have less gain than the V3, but if you play it you will know it doesnt matter. It is so tight.. And the clarity.. Progressive heaven.


This thread is an example of why I don't want to post much on GG&A anymore.

Some people try to help, and then others start throwing their opinion around like it means something on the Interwebz. Half the time, a proper discussion gets blown to bits because some people don't even analyse and dissect the problem proper, and insist they are correct because they are so-and-so.
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ragingkitty
I think one thing that a lot of people have overlooked is the characteristic of the gain that the TS is looking for. Level of gain and the characteristic of the gain are 2 different things.


i think the kitty is on to something here.



TS - does it just get fizzy fizz fizz at a certain point on the dial and sound unusable to you?
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Old 09-08-2012, 10:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ragingkitty
This thread is an example of why I don't want to post much on GG&A anymore.

Some people try to help, and then others start throwing their opinion around like it means something on the Interwebz. Half the time, a proper discussion gets blown to bits because some people don't even analyse and dissect the problem proper, and insist they are correct because they are so-and-so.

As far as I was aware we were having a proper discussion? TS stated that he wanted a Pettruci style tone, he said the V3M wasn't gainy enough, ODs were suggested as well as different preamp tubes. The V3M is a great amp and IMO capable of liquidy lead tones, running out and getting a Mark V while great isn't always feasible. TS has been given low cost options to try out first including tweaking the EQ as it is a tweakers amp

EDIT: By no means saying that my opinions are the only correct ones, I just don't want TS to count out a good amp without trying some cheaper options first
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