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Old 09-10-2012, 12:46 PM   #1
Garlic Owl
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Theory question..

Hey guys, I'm new to learning theory and I came across a chord progression in the key of Eb major and in the progression there is one part where it goes from (Abmaj7 which I understand why it is going to be major since it is the 4th note in the key of Eb major) to a Dm7b5 G7. Why does the G7 work in this progression? Is it because G is the phrygian mode? Would anyone care to explain it to me? Thank you

Last edited by Garlic Owl : 09-10-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:54 PM   #2
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What's the full chord progression / song?
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #3
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It's ii-V'ing it's way in to something, it may be interrupted, though...

Study cadences, minor tonality.... and Jazz, young tenderfoot.
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
What's the full chord progression / song?



Sorry, I had just edited it, I left out the chord in between the Abmaj7 and the G7.

The progression is:

Abmaj7 - Dm7b5 - G7sus4 - G7

then there is a section where it is

Cmin7 - Bbmin7 - Abmaj13
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #5
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Yep, D - G chords is just a way of extending the progression out a little further. It temporarily tonicizes the Cm chord.

Last edited by mdc : 09-10-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlic Owl
Sorry, I had just edited it, I left out the chord in between the Abmaj7 and the G7.

The progression is:

Abmaj7 - Dm7b5 - G7sus4 - G7

then there is a section where it is

Cmin7 - Bbmin7 - Abmaj13

Well, are you sure that's in Eb major? I don't see any Eb chords so it might not be in Eb major. If the progression doesn't resolve to Eb, it's not in Eb. But about that G in Eb major. The G7 chord is the V chord in the relative minor of Eb (C minor). It's very commonly used. And the first progression sounds more like it was in C minor.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggaraMarine
Well, are you sure that's in Eb major? I don't see any Eb chords so it might not be in Eb major. If the progression doesn't resolve to Eb, it's not in Eb. But about that G in Eb major. The G7 chord is the V chord in the relative minor of Eb (C minor). It's very commonly used. And the first progression sounds more like it was in C minor.



Oh ok, what determines the key of a progression if the resolution isn't on the I chord? Also what key would the 2nd section be considered?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:08 PM   #8
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:14 PM   #9
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Key is really a concept of hierarchy within a harmonic structure. Even though there's a main dominant - tonic object, that does not mean it's the only one within a key, just that it's the CENTRAL one. But all the phenomenons that are attributed to the tonic can also be attributed to ALL harmony surrounding the tonic.

You're thinking about this the wrong way in that you're fixated on diatonicism...that is every harmony has to fit nice and neatly into the harmonic system made up of the 7 diatonic notes. Music in reality doesn't work this way. Diatonicism is a merely a backdrop and allows for contrast, tension, and development, which is where chromaticism comes in.

I don't really care what key you're trying to find. But consider that the G7 is a dominant functioning harmony, and it is typical that a subdominant functioning harmony precedes it...that subdominant in this case is the D-7b5.

Also don't bother trying to pinpoint what mode/scale each harmony belongs to. It is utterly pointless.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:06 AM   #10
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All of these chords would fall nicely into C harmonic minor, with the exception of Bb min7.

G7sus4, I would look at as a sub(stitution) for the Dmin7b5. They are almost the same chord.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringzzz
All of these chords would fall nicely into C harmonic minor, with the exception of Bb min7.

G7sus4, I would look at as a sub(stitution) for the Dmin7b5. They are almost the same chord.

C harmonic minor is not a key
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:43 AM   #12
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Okay, but the harmonized C harmonic minor will give you these chords.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #13
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ts could you answer my question please
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Key is really a concept of hierarchy within a harmonic structure. Even though there's a main dominant - tonic object, that does not mean it's the only one within a key, just that it's the CENTRAL one. But all the phenomenons that are attributed to the tonic can also be attributed to ALL harmony surrounding the tonic.

You're thinking about this the wrong way in that you're fixated on diatonicism...that is every harmony has to fit nice and neatly into the harmonic system made up of the 7 diatonic notes. Music in reality doesn't work this way. Diatonicism is a merely a backdrop and allows for contrast, tension, and development, which is where chromaticism comes in.

I don't really care what key you're trying to find. But consider that the G7 is a dominant functioning harmony, and it is typical that a subdominant functioning harmony precedes it...that subdominant in this case is the D-7b5.

Also don't bother trying to pinpoint what mode/scale each harmony belongs to. It is utterly pointless.


Yeah, I usually don't care what scale/mode each harmony belongs to. I just find what notes work in the progression and go from there. Thanks everyone for the input.

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Old 09-12-2012, 03:29 AM   #15
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:41 AM   #16
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:04 AM   #17
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:27 AM   #18
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:51 AM   #19
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This is standard Jazz harmony, many tunes use this kind of progression
So it starts on
AbMaj7, then the composer shoved a minor ii-V7 in the Key of C minor, Dm7b5 - G7. The G7sus4 is just a suspension that leads the G7 smoothly.
Then from C minor, the Bbmin7 is just used to lead into a I smoothly (AbMaj13 with a natural 11). In bop harmony the 11th is usually raised because it is an 'avoid' note (but there are no such things as those), and that could usually imply that it is functioning as a IV chord, but since in this case the 11th is deliberately left natural to imply a I. But I don't know what period this piece is from, so what I'm telling you is just a guess.

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Old 09-13-2012, 03:34 AM   #20
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As in, an owl carved from a bigger-than-usual piece of garlic?

Or a regular sized piece of garlic carved with hobbyist tools under a magnifying glass?

Or a sentient genetic freak of a being with free will that is composed entirely of garlic?
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