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Old 09-24-2012, 04:35 PM   #21
Dave_Mc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Saale
(a) Don't worry about the peak power blowing speakers. Speaker manufacturers know how tube amps are rated and their speakers are designed to handle peak power. Ideally a guitar speaker will handle 150% of its power rating before failure.

(b) Maybe mix one of your current speakers with 1 v30, that might give you the clarity with the bottom end you're looking for.


(a) agreed. well, at least if you're talking about celestions. they're pretty conservatively-rated, and seem to be (for most models) rated for "real world" applications (i.e. one of their 50 watt-rated speakers should be safe with a 50 watt tube amp).

Some other companies aren't rated so conservatively.

(b) yep. there are a couple of nice combos with the v30 which would save you buying two speakers. g12t75 is pretty nice to balance the v30's peaks and troughs; the classic lead gives you a more modern, chunkier tone which also somewhat neutralises the v30s mid peak.

the other thing is, wait until the v30s are broken in. it's not a night and day difference, they still sound like v30s, but they should be a fair bit smoother and sweeter once broken in.

but once they are, if you still don't like them, that's fair enough- i wouldn't say I'm a v30 hater, but i definitely only do like them for certain things.

the other thing i'd say is, when combined with something else, i thought it could change the character of the v30 quite noticeably. So not liking them on their own doesn't guarantee you won't like them combined with something else. At the same time, though, you'd still sorta know there was a v30 in there. So if you utterly loathe them...

I realise that's very little help, lol.

based on what you said, I would maybe try the classic lead first in combination with the v30- assuming the g12k100 doesn't do that better. i haven't tried the g12k100 as it was the wrong impedance- which would be worth bearing in mind for you, too, the g12k100 is only available in 8 ohm impedance, your v30s might not be 8 ohm.

texas heat and swamp thang is very chunky and a good modern metal combo but (a) it massively changes the character of the amp, and might be like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer (which is why i'd try the classic lead in combo with the v30 first) and (b) the texas heat has a bit of grit/grind in the midrange which I didn't think gelled with all the amps i tried.

the other thign is, i'd have said at least several of the tones you listed (i'm not familiar with most of them) probably are v30s.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:06 PM   #22
Blktiger0
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
(a) agreed. well, at least if you're talking about celestions. they're pretty conservatively-rated, and seem to be (for most models) rated for "real world" applications (i.e. one of their 50 watt-rated speakers should be safe with a 50 watt tube amp).

Some other companies aren't rated so conservatively.

(b) yep. there are a couple of nice combos with the v30 which would save you buying two speakers. g12t75 is pretty nice to balance the v30's peaks and troughs; the classic lead gives you a more modern, chunkier tone which also somewhat neutralises the v30s mid peak.

the other thing is, wait until the v30s are broken in. it's not a night and day difference, they still sound like v30s, but they should be a fair bit smoother and sweeter once broken in.

but once they are, if you still don't like them, that's fair enough- i wouldn't say I'm a v30 hater, but i definitely only do like them for certain things.

the other thing i'd say is, when combined with something else, i thought it could change the character of the v30 quite noticeably. So not liking them on their own doesn't guarantee you won't like them combined with something else. At the same time, though, you'd still sorta know there was a v30 in there. So if you utterly loathe them...

I realise that's very little help, lol.

based on what you said, I would maybe try the classic lead first in combination with the v30- assuming the g12k100 doesn't do that better. i haven't tried the g12k100 as it was the wrong impedance- which would be worth bearing in mind for you, too, the g12k100 is only available in 8 ohm impedance, your v30s might not be 8 ohm.

texas heat and swamp thang is very chunky and a good modern metal combo but (a) it massively changes the character of the amp, and might be like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer (which is why i'd try the classic lead in combo with the v30 first) and (b) the texas heat has a bit of grit/grind in the midrange which I didn't think gelled with all the amps i tried.

the other thign is, i'd have said at least several of the tones you listed (i'm not familiar with most of them) probably are v30s.


First of all, I think you might have misunderstood: I don't own V30's or anything with V30's in them. I tried out a cab with V30's in it with my amp (the rhythm guitarist of my band plays a Mesa Rectoverb and has a Mesa Recto 2x12 with V30s) using my amp. His speakers are definitely broken in by now, especially since he bought the cab used. The speakers I'm using are the stock Eminence speakers in my JCA24S.

I do realize that most of the tones I listed are V30s, but most of them lack the low-end I want, and on album recordings and even with the amp mic'd, you don't get the harsh high end that the V30's had, plus most of those albums are probably double-tracked to thicken up the sound.

Like I said, I don't hate the V30's. I loved the clarity and the aggressive midrange, but they seemed a bit thin to me, and the high-end was too harsh and needed smoothed out. After what everyone has been saying about the Swamp Thang, I'm pretty sure two of them wouldn't be a good choice and I'm not sure about even one of them if the bass is that overpowering. I want a strong, tight bass, but not something that puts our bassist to shame. I'm still wondering how two K-100's would do in a 2x12. If it comes down to using a V30, I think I might go with WGS's clone, since they tamed the high end of their version.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
(a) First of all, I think you might have misunderstood: I don't own V30's or anything with V30's in them. I tried out a cab with V30's in it with my amp (the rhythm guitarist of my band plays a Mesa Rectoverb and has a Mesa Recto 2x12 with V30s) using my amp. His speakers are definitely broken in by now, especially since he bought the cab used. The speakers I'm using are the stock Eminence speakers in my JCA24S.

(b) I do realize that most of the tones I listed are V30s, but most of them lack the low-end I want, and on album recordings and even with the amp mic'd, you don't get the harsh high end that the V30's had, plus most of those albums are probably double-tracked to thicken up the sound.

(c) Like I said, I don't hate the V30's. I loved the clarity and the aggressive midrange, but they seemed a bit thin to me, and the high-end was too harsh and needed smoothed out. After what everyone has been saying about the Swamp Thang, I'm pretty sure two of them wouldn't be a good choice and I'm not sure about even one of them if the bass is that overpowering. I want a strong, tight bass, but not something that puts our bassist to shame. I'm still wondering how two K-100's would do in a 2x12. If it comes down to using a V30, I think I might go with WGS's clone, since they tamed the high end of their version.


(a) oh right, woops Sorry

(b) ah, that makes more sense. Thanks. That's absolutely fair enough.

(c) I wouldn't say the bass of the swamp thang was overpowering- however, i only play at home, so how it fares when combined with a full band, I dunno.

I haven't tried the WGS- that being said, the one clip i heard comparing the veteran 30 to the vintage 30, i actually thought the vintage 30 was a bit mellower. Of course, you can tell very little from clips, and that's the opposite of how it's meant to be, so maybe it was just that one vid.

EDIT: if you want a chunkier, toned down v30- how about an eminence v12? They don't sound that alike, to be honest (though if you really don't like the v30 as much as you suggest, maybe that's a good thing), but they really toned down my jet city head and sounded pretty good with all the amps i tried them with. cheap, too. And not as much of a "sledgehammer cracking a walnut" solution as the swamp thang or something like that.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc : 09-25-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:28 PM   #24
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WGS tried to take the ice pick out of the v30. they "smoothed" out the top end a bit. i think this is trying to emulate the british v30s opposed to the chniese v30s which are ice picky.

i would not let it fool you, it still is a v30 clone, so its still going to have mid range and some top end. with a v30 and a reaper in a 2x12, i have no issues cutting through.

its emulating a classic v30 and g12h30....which is a fairly common / classic combo. excdpt mine is better, cause its WGS!
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:01 AM   #25
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All things considered, I think I'm probably going to go with a V30/K100 pairing, and if I don't like it, I can always either return the V30, trade it for another speaker, or sell it and buy something else. It's not like V30's are a hard speaker to sell, and I think if I would spend more time with them, I might find that I like them more than I currently do. I really didn't adjust my EQ at all after hooking up to the V30's, so I really didn't give them a fair trial. I think what I might do is buy a V30-loaded 4x12 and buy two K100's to swap with two of the speakers, then throw at least one of those V30's in my 2x12. I've been itching for an excuse to buy a 412 anyway
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:24 AM   #26
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OK, so you're not keen on V30's and are looking for something warmer? I can dig that, I don't like V30's much and that's why.

Two completely different things that I'd suggest.
1. http://www.scumbackspeakers.com
Have a look around at what's on offer. They are basically high powered greenbacks. They'll give you a more vintagey sound. Those mated up with your amp would be pretty sweet I'd think.

2. Electro-Voice.
Gary Moore's and Zakk Wylde's choice of speakers. You want warmth? They'll give you warmth.

Just a little lateral thinking for ya.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #27
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im sure they are nice but jesus are those electro voice expensive. like 250+ a peice. if im dropping more than 200 it better be alnico.

scumbacks are great but also bring a premium.

im not sure WGS can be beat for total package : cost. eminence probably a close 2nd.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:51 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ikey_
i would not let it fool you, it still is a v30 clone, so its still going to have mid range and some top end.


that's kinda what i was thinking when i suggested the eminence v12- they're not really clones, or even all that close. I agree with you- if you really don't like something, a very-slightly-changed version of the same thing might not be enough difference for you. (I say that having not tried the wgs version, though, maybe it is fairly different.)
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #29
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naw i mean if you want a v30 its gonna be a v30. it just might not be AS harsh on the top. they aparently smoothed out the top end but really, i would need to A/B the speakers to tell. really, its just a WGS, assembled in the USA, 50% of the cost V30.

....so like, better in every way.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:16 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ikey_
naw i mean if you want a v30 its gonna be a v30. it just might not be AS harsh on the top. they aparently smoothed out the top end but really, i would need to A/B the speakers to tell. really, its just a WGS, assembled in the USA, 50% of the cost V30.

....so like, better in every way.


Honestly, if I go the route of just buying the speakers and installing them, I'll be going with WGS. If I would buy a preloaded 4x12, it'll be Egnater's HG slant cab, which isn't even released yet, so it depends on my funding and patience
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:28 AM   #31
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I love my Swamp Thang/Texas Heat combo in the Avatar 2x12 I have. Rolls off the high end perfectly without losing presence, has the mids to cut through and low end for days. I use it with a Mesa F-50 and a Laney GH50L. I'd say the Laney is closer in sound to your JCA, and it really gets along well with said speaker combo.

Again, speakers are really all up to preference. Buy used, try some, flip some, see what you like. I bought my duo after doing research and end up loving it.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:54 AM   #32
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I run a Governor which is Eminence's take on the V 30 (supposedly some of the harsh highs are cut out a bit.) At first, I wasn't sure I liked it -- but after about 30 hours of break-in most of that harshness smoothed out and it developed more low-end. I also probably just got used to the sound. It still has a lot of upper mids and highs though. I've found that I can dial that out as much as I want by simply cutting the highest frequency on my MXR 10 band eq by 3db or so. That speaker really just rips through the mix when it's turned up loud.

If I was going to pair it with another speaker in a 2X12 cab though, I'd probably pair it with something a little more low/low-mid oriented.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:29 PM   #33
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^ i haven't tried the gov, but i'd say that's true with the v30, too. I have some broken-in ones, and some new ones, and the broken-in ones are definitely a lot smoother and less harsh- but they're still v30s, all the same. If you pretty much like brand new v30s but find them a little harsh, then breaking in might do enough, kind of thing. But if you hate them, i doubt breaking them in would make enough difference to suddenly make you love them. Of course, everyone's different, so you can't say these things for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikey_
naw i mean if you want a v30 its gonna be a v30. it just might not be AS harsh on the top. they aparently smoothed out the top end but really, i would need to A/B the speakers to tell.


yep, exactly. I'd be wary of suggesting something which might be so close to a v30 when he said he didn't like the v30. It might not be that close, but it might be, and is it worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaidBack
I love my Swamp Thang/Texas Heat combo in the Avatar 2x12 I have. Rolls off the high end perfectly without losing presence, has the mids to cut through and low end for days. I use it with a Mesa F-50 and a Laney GH50L. I'd say the Laney is closer in sound to your JCA, and it really gets along well with said speaker combo.

Again, speakers are really all up to preference. Buy used, try some, flip some, see what you like. I bought my duo after doing research and end up loving it.


he only has the jet city cab, he's running an egnater head.

I really didn't like the TH/ST with my jet city head, though- as you said, you'd have thought it'd work, but there was something gritty/grainy in the mids (of the TH, i think) which clashed with the jet city.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #34
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shows how well I read

Yea, I've never played a Jet City outside of Guitar Center....so there's that.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:03 PM   #35
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haha i always skim the things too and normally miss the important bit

half the stuff i've tried i've only had limited try-outs in the shop, so i wouldn't worry about that. you would think the ST and TH would work well with the jet city (certainly i did before i tried them, i thought they'd be the perfect match), just they didn't.
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