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Old 09-27-2012, 08:34 AM   #1
explosion231
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Wink Help on playing fast

Hey guys, can someone give me advice on playing fast?? I've been playing for 4 years now, and i never quite liked shredding and stuff, but now i've been trying to use it...i can play some fast stuff, like the solo of master of puppets or some parts of sweet child oh mine...But when i start to shred, it sounds really sloppy and changing between the strings with my right hand its very dficult.

Thanks for the help guys, Apreciate it
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:04 AM   #2
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Practise slowly with a good technique. If you try to play too fast you'll just teach your hands bad habits and they're hard to get out of. Focus on moving your fingers as little as possible (keep them close to the fingerboard) and use a metronome.

<-- Videos by this guy are good and have helped me.

Remember that you won't learn to shred overnight, you'll need months, even years, of patient practice.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #3
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I use a warm up i saw in a joe satrian video which worked really well for me. run up four semi tones on the low string using all four fingers then do the same on the higher strings on the same frets. Do this excercise starting at the first fret and continue forward and reverse and then repeat on the second, then the third all the way up to or beyond the twelfth..... too complicated to explain i think its one of these videos. (my phone wont load em)

m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=o-H72ECeZBs

m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=JNDyI5b3Fh8
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:07 PM   #4
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remember that playing fast is nothing but smoking mirrors unless you have a proper grasp on the fundamentals and are melodic in your approach to an idea rather than masturbatory for the sake of feigning inspiration.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:36 PM   #5
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You should definitely start slow with a metronome until you can really get a disciplined, consistent picking technique.

At that point there isn't a lot of harm in cranking the speed up and simply TRYING to play fast. A lot of issues happen when you try to linearly increase speed, because you will find the slower you play the less economical you will be, and guess what happens when you speed it up incrementally? You don't really deal with economizing your picking hand movements...you gotta force yourself into that barrier of uncomfortable shit to be able to hone the skill.

Try incorporate alternate picking on one note at high speed or with very repetitive patterns on one string, just to begin to feel how everything should be working at a higher speed.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
You should definitely start slow with a metronome until you can really get a disciplined, consistent picking technique.

At that point there isn't a lot of harm in cranking the speed up and simply TRYING to play fast. A lot of issues happen when you try to linearly increase speed, because you will find the slower you play the less economical you will be, and guess what happens when you speed it up incrementally? You don't really deal with economizing your picking hand movements...you gotta force yourself into that barrier of uncomfortable shit to be able to hone the skill.

Try incorporate alternate picking on one note at high speed or with very repetitive patterns on one string, just to begin to feel how everything should be working at a higher speed.


the whole point of slowing down is to play economically and observe your technique, and the primary problem with the brick-wall Lane method is that you tend to non-economical movements and bad habits when you don't approach with a metronome

...
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Hail
the whole point of slowing down is to play economically and observe your technique, and the primary problem with the brick-wall Lane method is that you tend to non-economical movements and bad habits when you don't approach with a metronome

...

Not true.

If you have the fundamentals down there it's not productive to waste time running patterns from 60 bpm up to 210. You'll hit a threshold you won't be able to pass, because your body and mind just aren't able to operate at that speed - it's an entirely different process.

Tom Hess has plenty of videos about this.

Don't get me wrong. If you haven't developed your technique at all then you really do need to start slow with a metronome, but once you have engrained the basic mechanics into your muscle memory...then that approach is not going to be as fruitful as pushing yourself into the speed you need/want to be at and fleshing it out from there.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 09-27-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #8
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don't just randomly alternate pick stuff. pay attention to what your picking hand is doing. when you change to a thinner string, use a downstroke on the last note of the previous string. when going to a thicker string, use an upstroke on the last note of the current string.

this means that sometimes you'll have to start with an upstroke, sometimes not and sometimes use 2 up or downstrokes after each other. this is a bitch to get used to but once you get it it will happen naturally.

i used to alternate pick by simply doing 'down up down up' all the time and it was way more sloppy than with this technique.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #9
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Interesting. I'll have give that a whirl...though I think consistently would be a bit better.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by chronowarp

Tom Hess has plenty of videos about this.


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Old 09-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hail

mmm, no, not really.

tell you what,
show me a video of you playing fast
and I'll show you one of mine, and we can use that as a benchmark for deliberating on which method is more effective in the long run.

I have a feeling you can't play fast at all.
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Last edited by chronowarp : 09-27-2012 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
Interesting. I'll have give that a whirl...though I think consistently would be a bit better.



this his how my teacher taught me. i haven't got it down completely but i definitely feel it makes the string changes go more fluently and it sounds less sloppy. and the pick hits less unwanted strings. let us know how it went for you please
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
mmm, no, not really.

tell you what,
show me a video of you playing fast
and I'll show you one of mine, and we can use that as a benchmark for deliberating on which method is more effective in the long run.

I have a feeling you can't play fast at all.


i don't play guitar

HAHAHAHA
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #14
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then gtfo and stop confusing this young axe-master man :/
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Hail
i don't play guitar

HAHAHAHA

so...you're trying to provide advice to somebody on the mechanics of building technique on an instrument you can't even play.

interesting.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:05 PM   #16
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remember that playing fast is nothing but smoking mirrors unless you have a proper grasp on the fundamentals and are melodic in your approach to an idea rather than masturbatory for the sake of feigning inspiration.


music advice is universal, and you can find tons of posts from people far more qualified than you or i around here and GT concerning the mechanics of the lane-rush method. FP in particular had a really good explanation concerning the issues involved in using speed block training scarcely and only when you've reached a level where the metronome won't cut it. something tells me TS isn't at this point if he has to ask the question in the first place.

i could show you my 32nd note 4-finger rolls and it wouldn't do anything but make me look like an asshole considering we're in a music theory forum where speed is far less important to anyone compared to proper technique to portray a strong sense of musicality.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Hail
music advice is universal, and you can find tons of posts from people far more qualified than you or i around here and GT concerning the mechanics of the lane-rush method. FP in particular had a really good explanation concerning the issues involved in using speed block training scarcely and only when you've reached a level where the metronome won't cut it. something tells me TS isn't at this point if he has to ask the question in the first place.

i could show you my 32nd note 4-finger rolls and it wouldn't do anything but make me look like an asshole considering we're in a music theory forum where speed is far less important to anyone compared to proper technique to portray a strong sense of musicality.

its really...not. "musical advice" isn't the same as instrument specific technique...

I'd love to see some solid refutation of the method that someone like tom hess endorses (Shit player, immaculate technique) and demonstrates with success. come at me?
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Last edited by chronowarp : 09-27-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
its really...not. "musical advice" isn't the same as instrument specific technique...

I'd love to see some solid refutation of the method that someone like tom hess endorses (Shit player, immaculate technique) and demonstrates with success. come at me?


If you paid Tom Hess to mistify all the well known basic principles for you, shroud them in mystery, add stupid claims about how doing sth everyday damages your progress and steve jobing you into how he just doesnt accept anyone into his super secret privileged master jackson circle, then be our guest and believe his methods,after all they are backed up by poorly made excel graphics!( with no actal data lol) (his money making scams seem insanely effective though, the mofo charges monthly fees for excel sheets and a timer)

Tom Hess is a great player but no, he has no perfect technique and his music is boring as hell.
**** him and his marketing.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Slashiepie
If you paid Tom Hess to mistify all the well known basic principles for you shroud them in mystery and then add stupid claims like that stupid shit about how doing sth everyday damages your progress, then be our guest and believe his methods, they are backed up by poorly made excel graphics! (his money making scams are insanely effective though, the mofo charges monthly fees for excel sheets and a timer)

Tom Hess is a great player but he has no perfect technique and his music is boring as hell.
**** him and his marketing.

Agreed.

But now explain to me why his method is not correct, and how he does not have precise picking technique. Go!

fyi: i dont need tom hess' lessons, nor at this point in my development would i ever hire a teacher to work on technique. i have a degree in performance and more than aware of my own technical limitations and how to conquer issues i run into in my musical endeavors.

so it's not an endorsement or in an investment on part, i'm simply offering a single example of a player that has immaculate technique and teaches a method that is congruous with what I offered the OP. start slow, yes. use a metronome, yes. but you also need to constantly engage yourself at a high speed so that your body can actually adapt to the adjustments that need to be made...
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
Agreed.

But now explain to me why his method is not correct, and how he does not have precise picking technique. Go!


I dont have much of a problem with your approach, if you mean Shawn Lane speed up clean it up later, i have a problem with Tom Hess being mentioned as a source. (and he does not have many fans in these forums, reason for the pic)

Anyways there is no Scientific data to compare methods, but on the right hands and with the right mindset both will work. Shawn Lanes technique is easier to get wrong though and i would class it as more advanced and harder to pull off correctly.

Going back to even slower speeds usually saves you the hassle of having the need to ogo back and rework bad habits, and yeah it may blow minds but it ends up increasing your overall speed treshold.

Whatever works, i would never suggest anyone who has no perfect basics and good understanding of technique to do what Shawn did. Most technique issues i see is because peoplejust had to speed up and clean it up later, the second part just didnt happen, nevertheless anything is still valid.

Sidenote: We need athread about modes sodomized by Tom Hess.
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