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Old 09-25-2012, 08:12 AM   #1
kauna
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What scales should i learn next?

I've been playing guitar for 3 years.I only know the minor pentatonic but I still have problems with the fourth and fifth position when improvising.Few days ago i learned the Aeolian (Natural minor) and Lydian scale and i improvisided with a backing track for each scale and they worked pretty well.I only learned the first position.What scale should i learn next or should i learn every position first and then move on?
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #2
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:56 AM   #3
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The vast majority of songs in any genre do not deviate from major, minor and blues scales. The trick is learning how to use them.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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Scales don't make music, intervals do. Learn how your intervals sound and the musicality of your improv will begin to get better. Scales are only good for showing where the notes lay on the fretboard. Always listen.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
Scales don't make music, intervals do.

So do the police.

(woo woo woo)
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
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So do the police.

(woo woo woo)



The Who?
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:34 AM   #7
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It doesn't quite have the same tone when you change the lyrics to be about music composition though...
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:38 AM   #8
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If you play the C major scale but start and end at the B notes thats a diminished pattern.
Play A minor but keep M7th G# thats the harmonic minor scale.

small variations change the scale. Patterns is not what you seek, but knowledge Kauna, you seek knowledge.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:43 AM   #9
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If you play the C major scale but start and end at the B notes thats a diminished pattern.


If you play that in the key of C major it's just the C major scale. If it was in the key of B major, it would simply function as an ugly use of accidentals to the B major scale. Knowing the notes is half the battle. The other half is harmonic context.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
It doesn't quite have the same tone when you change the lyrics to be about music composition though...


Ah! Apparently I'm lagging behind on my pop culture. I thought you meant the band The Police, hence my intended pun of The Who.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:58 AM   #11
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The word "position" here is your problem. Learning your scales as patterns on a fretboard is a beginner tool. Learn the scales you already know as a series of intervals, not box patterns. I can tell you the only box pattern I've ever learned was the minor pentatonic shape as a beginner, yet I can play pretty much an scale you throw at me anywhere on the neck. You don't truly understand a scale until you're thinking about intervals and not shapes. And once you understand a few of them well enough, you'll be able to write entire awesome songs without the thought of a scale ever crossing your mind.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
If you play that in the key of C major it's just the C major scale. If it was in the key of B major, it would simply function as an ugly use of accidentals to the B major scale. Knowing the notes is half the battle. The other half is harmonic context.


ok so what are the notes in the B diminished scale?

How can these notes relate to the C major scale?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
ok so what are the notes in the B diminished scale?

Depends if it's W-H of H-W.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
ok so what are the notes in the B diminished scale?

How can these notes relate to the C major scale?


Therein lies your misunderstanding of what Alan is trying to say. He's not comparing the scales, he's talking about the key. If you play the B Locrian mode (I assume that's what you meant by B diminished scale since earlier you described starting C major on B as diminished. B diminished is not the same as B Locrian.) in the key of C major then it isn't B Locrian; it is C major.

In order for it to be B Locrian then the key must be B, in which case you will be hard-pressed to keep it from either: resolving to a different key; or differing from B minor/major. Like he said in his post, harmonic context.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by J-Dawg158
Therein lies your misunderstanding of what Alan is trying to say. He's not comparing the scales, he's talking about the key. If you play the B Locrian mode (I assume that's what you meant by B diminished scale since earlier you described starting C major on B as diminished. B diminished is not the same as B Locrian.) in the key of C major then it isn't B Locrian; it is C major.

In order for it to be B Locrian then the key must be B, in which case you will be hard-pressed to keep it from either: resolving to a different key; or differing from B minor/major. Like he said in his post, harmonic context.


I understood. alan was diving into context babble. But Kauna asked for more scales. I simply pointed out the dimished pattern from the major scale...basicly saying the scales are already there. it is not scales you seek but knowledge. and I did it Without bringing up modes...

It takes time to learn this stuff, we are talking about context we are learning scales and patterns.

they got diagrams of 5 pentatonic positions If you take the C major scale and play that same scale starting from A then the C then the D then the E then the G you have your 5 positions. thats pretty much what I'm saying

I dont think you count F because it would to much like E for the pentatonic side of things.?

because im not into modes we arent talkin about modal learning here this is simply fretboard and scale navigation

once you start learning how to jam you discover context and find new sounds

alan is clearly right if your playing B dim in the key of CM or Am your really playing in CM or Am.

BUT on the other hand in the key of C maj/Aminor B is the diminished note of the scale so it naturally is going to have a darker tone almost diminished sounding but within key like the harmonic minor scale!!! I'm setting records as we speak.

and this stuff goes right into harmony and how to harmonize your chords within the scale.
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
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...But Kauna asked for more scales. I simply pointed out the dimished pattern from the major scale...

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Old 09-25-2012, 01:40 PM   #17
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Old 09-25-2012, 01:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
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BUT on the other hand in the key of C maj/Aminor B is the diminished note of the scale so it naturally is going to have a darker tone almost diminished sounding but within key like the harmonic minor scale!!!


Say what?

A note can't be "diminished."

There's nothing diminished sounding about a major seventh interval, or the role the major 7th plays in a major context. There's also nothing diminished sounding about the major second in a minor context.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:11 PM   #19
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:24 PM   #20
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