Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 09-25-2012, 03:16 PM   #21
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
holy ****
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
I understood. alan was diving into context babble. But Kauna asked for more scales. I simply pointed out the dimished pattern from the major scale...basicly saying the scales are already there. it is not scales you seek but knowledge. and I did it Without bringing up modes...

you realize that "context babble" is significantly more useful than any of the diarrhea you're spewing forth into this thread, because randomly naming scales (especially when you say that b-c-d-e-f-g-a-b is a diminished scale) provides absolutely nothing of value
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
alan is clearly right if your playing B dim in the key of CM or Am your really playing in CM or Am.

why do you keep referring to this as "b dim", since you're still wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
BUT on the other hand in the key of C maj/Aminor B is the diminished note of the scale so it naturally is going to have a darker tone almost diminished sounding but within key like the harmonic minor scale!!!

news flash: there's no "diminished note of the scale"

yes there's a diminished triad built from it, but the note itself isn't diminished and all this stupid shit you're saying about "b dim" is comical

it's not naturally going to "have a darker tone", because if you think that a b played over a g major chord is going to sound the same as a b played over a Bm7b5 simply because "it's the diminished note", you're incapable of being further from the truth

news flash 2: the reason for this is the "context babble" you are so adamantly ignoring
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #22
aerosmithfan95
Call me Billy.
 
aerosmithfan95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In the pipes
The only "scales" that you should learn are the following:

Major Scale (and Major Pentatonic. It's also where all keys/scales are derived from)
Minor Scale (and Minor Pentatonic)
Harmonic Minor (Minor with a Major 7th instead of a Minor 7th interval)

Every other "scale" that you come across will be based off of the above ones with different accidentals. Most of the MT regulars will tell you think in keys (and accidentals) as opposed to scales. I would suggest just learning the basic on why/how it sounds good, then begin to think in keys.
__________________
AF95

Guitar --> Pedals --> Amplifier

Last edited by aerosmithfan95 : 09-25-2012 at 03:42 PM.
aerosmithfan95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #23
mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
 
mdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Fuck

ing

hell

Last edited by mdc : 09-25-2012 at 04:27 PM.
mdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 05:08 PM   #24
Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
 
Macabre_Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hermitage, PA
What have you done?
Macabre_Turtle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:00 PM   #25
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
I play by ear and from the sounds of it B in relation to C has a diminished sound to it, But ONLY IN CONTEXT. In context each sound is unique in relation to the other.

what does diminished mean anyway? to distort?

Just cause your music teacher doesn't agree, doesn't mean I have to. hell I'm in it for the music and joy of playing anyway. Im aloud to think outside of the box

unorthodox It might seem but its really all the same except I dont worry about that dumb shit you call important. Infact just save it for the ones that are asking those kind of questions.

The B diminished scale has the same notes as C major.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:19 PM   #26
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
reiterating for emphasis:
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
you realize that "context babble" is significantly more useful than any of the diarrhea you're spewing forth into this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
I play by ear and from the sounds of it B in relation to C has a diminished sound to it, But ONLY IN CONTEXT. In context each sound is unique in relation to the other.

the sound of a b in relation to c what? a c major chord? the note c? again, context is important, as you said, so just saying "b in relation to c has a diminished sound" is not only vague, but completely incorrect

i happen to have a very good ear as well, but i also have the advantage of knowing what i'm talking about rather than insisting i'm correct because i've convinced myself my approach to music is "thinking outside the box" rather than a fallacious distortion of everything that is correct tailored to suit my own ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
what does diminished mean anyway? to distort?

i'd like to take a moment here to point out that you're arguing about certain things "being diminished" or "being the diminished note in a scale" and afterward asking for the definition of the very term that's at the crux of your bullshit

how's that work exactly
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
Just cause your music teacher doesn't agree, doesn't mean I have to. hell I'm in it for the music and joy of playing anyway.

what music teacher? there's right and there's wrong. you happen to be the latter.

again, "in it for the joy of playing" is another thing you're telling yourself in an attempt to backtrack and refuse to admit that everything you're vomiting forth here is incorrect and completely misinformed - having fun and being correct are not mutually exclusive, you should try both sometime
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
unorthodox It might seem but its really all the same except I dont worry about that dumb shit you call important.

the only "dumb shit" you're concerned about is, well, absolutely everything you're saying

it's not "all the same", because i can hear something the same way as you and actually know what it is
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
The B diminished scale has the same notes as C major.

once again you have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to stop being insistent on this subject
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #27
Hydra150
not so cowardly
 
Hydra150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Scotland
__________________
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_pepper
I'm not gonna post pics of my hot mom.
Hydra150 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #28
Xiaoxi
Indeed.
 
Xiaoxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bodymore, Murdaland
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
The B diminished scale has the same notes as C major.

Which one?

B half-whole:
B, C, D, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, A

B whole-half:
B, C#, D, E, F, G, Ab, Bb


hint: you're wrong either way
__________________
"Man, modes 'n' scales ain't got no users, only abusers." - X.X. Little

Analyzing Brahms: Insights to Help Us Improve Our Music

My New Workstation

Last edited by Xiaoxi : 09-25-2012 at 07:50 PM.
Xiaoxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 08:25 PM   #29
Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
 
Macabre_Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hermitage, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
I play by ear and from the sounds of it B in relation to C has a diminished sound to it, But ONLY IN CONTEXT. In context each sound is unique in relation to the other.

what does diminished mean anyway? to distort?

Just cause your music teacher doesn't agree, doesn't mean I have to. hell I'm in it for the music and joy of playing anyway. Im aloud to think outside of the box

unorthodox It might seem but its really all the same except I dont worry about that dumb shit you call important. Infact just save it for the ones that are asking those kind of questions.

The B diminished scale has the same notes as C major.



Oh God, if I ran a music forum, this kind of crap would get people banned.
Macabre_Turtle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #30
macashmack
Maskcashmack
 
macashmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octatonic_scale

I know wikapedia is not the best source all the time, but i think it works here.
Metalhead, i think that (BEFORE ANYONE TRIES TO CUT MY THROAT OUT AND MAKE ME FEEL BAD ABOUT MYSELF, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT I KNOW WHAT I AM ABOUT TO TALK ABOTU IS A LITTLE MOOT, BUT I AM JUST TRYING TO CLEAR THE AIR) you're getting it confused with the modern Locrian mode, which has the same notes in B and C major does.
However (TO THE TS), the modes don't really matter, i think that your best bet for getting sounds that you want is to stop thinking it terms of scales. Start singing solfeggi and getting an ear for chords and then you can write based purely off sound and not have to worry about anything else

Edit: PLEASE DON'T MURDER ME FOR THIS

Last edited by macashmack : 09-25-2012 at 08:45 PM.
macashmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2012, 09:48 PM   #31
Hail
kill both bass players
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dallas
i can't tell if i was smart and stayed out of this thread or if i said something so dumb it got deleted

this is becoming a bit of a trend
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 01:17 AM   #32
GoldenGuitar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
i can't tell if i was smart and stayed out of this thread or if i said something so dumb it got deleted

this is becoming a bit of a trend


YOU WERE SMART!!!
GoldenGuitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 03:22 AM   #33
91RG350
At least Microsoft cared
 
91RG350's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenGuitar
YOU WERE SMART!!!

..and it got deleted....judging by this thread!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
91RG350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 03:25 AM   #34
91RG350
At least Microsoft cared
 
91RG350's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW, Australia
^
Duh. That was dumb. Oh well.... it'll get....deleted...? Or....NOT..?

<<cue spooky music and fade to black>>
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
91RG350 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 03:36 AM   #35
Spaztikko
*
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Honestly its threads like this that make me feel comfortable with not knowing modes, but posting enough stuff in MT and bandleading to not get me banned for all my shit in the pit.

Life's good.
Spaztikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 04:19 AM   #36
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91RG350
<<cue spooky music and fade to black>>

the spooky music is played with a b diminished scale, evil twin to c major
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 04:20 AM   #37
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
I play by ear and from the sounds of it B in relation to C has a diminished sound to it, But ONLY IN CONTEXT. In context each sound is unique in relation to the other.

what does diminished mean anyway? to distort?

Just cause your music teacher doesn't agree, doesn't mean I have to. hell I'm in it for the music and joy of playing anyway. Im aloud to think outside of the box

unorthodox It might seem but its really all the same except I dont worry about that dumb shit you call important. Infact just save it for the ones that are asking those kind of questions.

The B diminished scale has the same notes as C major.


are you high bro?

diminished in the most basic sense refers to symmetrical minor thirds.

the "diminished scale" HW/WH is not...even close to Cmajor.

The diminished scale is two dim7's a whole step away from each...there isn't even a dim7 in the major scale.

B C# D E F G Ab Bb
C D E F G A B C

one of these things is not liek the other.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods

Last edited by chronowarp : 09-26-2012 at 04:22 AM.
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 07:55 AM   #38
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Which one?

B half-whole:
B, C, D, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, A

B whole-half:
B, C#, D, E, F, G, Ab, Bb


hint: you're wrong either way


oh I thought they were the same my mistake.

never the less 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1, still have the diminished qualities the b3 and b5. so next to locran what diatonic scale would that be?

b5 is known as a diminished 5th isnt it? because it was perfect, the 4th becomes augmented. I mistaking said diminished note. your right theres no such thing

I played a piano and the temperament is based around the C major scale..so tell me why B Minor has such a darker tone while playing in context of C major or Amin. But ya know it took my ears a few years aswell so don't beat yourself up if you cant tell the difference

I dont think this is as near as a big deal to me as it is to you. I apologize for offending any of you.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 08:41 AM   #39
AlanHB
Godin's Resident Groupie
 
AlanHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
I played a piano and the temperament is based around the C major scale..so tell me why B Minor has such a darker tone while playing in context of C major or Amin.


If by "context" you mean "key", you would be employing C# and F# accidentals in addition to the C major or A minor scales by virtue of using the notes of the B minor scale in one of those two keys. Depending on the key the accidentals will function differently. Whether is sounds "dark" or not is up to you.
__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
AlanHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #40
HotspurJr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead

I played a piano and the temperament is based around the C major scale


Dude, words mean things.

The piano's temperament is NOT based another the C major scale. It is an equal-tempered instrument.

Please don't use words that you don't understand in an attempt to sound smarter. It makes you sound like an idiot. The irony of course is that temperament is explained above, and you got all snooty claiming that you understood it.


Quote:
..so tell me why B Minor has such a darker tone while playing in context of C major or Amin.


It doesn't. And your snide comment that your ears are so well-trained that you can hear it is laughable.

Quote:
I dont think this is as near as a big deal to me as it is to you. .


Funny, you keep posting AS IF it were a big deal to you. You've certainly put a lot of words in on the topic. It also evidently means enough to you that you feel compelled to make up definitions for words to fit your meanings.
HotspurJr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.