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Old 09-27-2012, 08:22 AM   #41
metalmetalhead
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Then why, when I tune my guitar with a guitar tuner and then I use the piano on reaper to check my tuning its off?

whats the difference in tunings between the guitar and piano? they are not the same. close but not the same.

I could have sworn one was based around C major/ A minor. This will really bum me out if its the case. I thought pianos were tuned with just temperament, the guitar was equal temperament.

Must be the piano keys are based around the C major scale.

take every note from C major and make it a chord and then harmonize every chord with C major scale and tell me what chord B is. I. E is why I said naturally B is diminished in the key of C.

shine on your crazy diamonds has an Eb dim chord or would it be D# dim? eb sounds cooler...

conclusion, C major and B dim b7 have the same notes....right?
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:37 AM   #42
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You have Bdim triad, B half diminished, Bdim7th

Which one is it?
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:38 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
Then why, when I tune my guitar with a guitar tuner and then I use the piano on reaper to check my tuning its off?

whats the difference in tunings between the guitar and piano? they are not the same. close but not the same.

I could have sworn one was based around C major/ A minor. This will really bum me out if its the case. I thought pianos were tuned with just temperament, the guitar was equal temperament.

Must be the piano keys are based around the C major scale.

take every note from C major and make it a chord and then harmonize every chord with C major scale and tell me what chord B is. I. E is why I said naturally B is diminished in the key of C.

shine on your crazy diamonds has an Eb dim chord or would it be D# dim? eb sounds cooler...

conclusion, C major and B dim b7 have the same notes....right?


1. Because you either suck at using a tuner, or your intonation is off.
2. They are the same.
3. Only if you travel back in time before you play your piano.
4. Yeah, the B makes a diminished chord. Nobody here would argue against that. But it is not the diminished scale. That's a locrian scale, and good luck making the song resolve on B anyway, so that scale is only theoretical anyway.
5. Sounds cooler? That has nothing to do with what is correct.
6. B dim b7 isn't even a scale. What in the world are you talking about?
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:45 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macabre_Turtle
1. Because you either suck at using a tuner, or your intonation is off.

This.

Because your singing is a little off on Rolling In The Deep on your YouTube channel. I think you maybe tone deaf.

I'm being kind.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauna
I've been playing guitar for 3 years.I only know the minor pentatonic but I still have problems with the fourth and fifth position when improvising.Few days ago i learned the Aeolian (Natural minor) and Lydian scale and i improvisided with a backing track for each scale and they worked pretty well.I only learned the first position.What scale should i learn next or should i learn every position first and then move on?


Wassap! I try to learn 10 positions for each scale. For the past year, I've been using Locrian a lot for solos. That's the 7th mode of major scale. If you listen to my song:

"New Song 1 No Vocals" around 5:33,

I start a solo on B Locrian over a B minor progression. I hope that gives you a feel of the half diminished sound. I incorporate Harmonic Minor into my melodies too. My song :

"New Song 3 No Lyrics" has A Harmonic Minor as the melody over the verse starting around 00:37.

I hope that gives you a perspective of modes that you can learn. Learning scales and modes won't make you more talented musician, it's more a "map" of how to access modes on the positions of the fretboard. Musicality come when you start understanding the relations between intervals and how to incorporate them into the melody/harmony structure. Good luck and practice with a metronome. Always!
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Macabre_Turtle
1. Because you either suck at using a tuner, or your intonation is off.


This.

It's also possible that your ear is poorly trained, meaning that you get confused by differences in timbre, thinking that they're differences in pitch. It can be much harder to match pitch across instruments until your ear is well-trained.

Quote:
take every note from C major and make it a chord and then harmonize every chord with C major scale and tell me what chord B is. I. E is why I said naturally B is diminished in the key of C.


But you said the NOTE of B was diminished. YOu said the NOTE of B had a diminished sound. But it doesn't.

If what you're saying is that when you harmonize the notes of the major scale, the 7th gives you a diminished chord, nobody would have disagreed with you. But that's not what you said. You specifically and repeatedly said that the NOTE B has a diminished sound.

Which it doesn't.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:30 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
If you play the C major scale but start and end at the B notes thats a diminished pattern.
Play A minor but keep M7th G# thats the harmonic minor scale.

small variations change the scale. Patterns is not what you seek, but knowledge Kauna, you seek knowledge.


Im just going to stick with this. which is just pointing out different scaler patterns. all I intended to do.

sometimes I say the wrong stuff by mistake, to your advantage. I wont let that stop me. insist or move on.

rolling in the deep is a tough song. It doesn't help its transposed from Cm to Am and a octave lower. I doubt you know what that means.

about the piano thing I dont know I most likely tuned my guitar by ear "just temperament" by mistake, instead of using a tuner. shit happens

timbre and pitch aren't the same they are not confused with one another.

atleast I learned B dim is not the same as locrain pattern. I just assumed and now everyones an A**hole.

I used the model patterns to learn different scales It really helped me navigate the fretboard, Gave me more stuff to practice for techniques aswell. I used chords and arpegeated chords to help navigate the fretboard aswell. This is how I learned the 5 box shapes except I have a better idea of where the extra notes are Im not tied to pentatonics. its kinda like an all in one for me. and the more I fool with it the more I learn. I can improvise to any song on the radio. I've been playing for 10 years

If I would have said oh Ill still be in A min or C maj might as well not practice that.
I don't make excuses not to learn something. or to not try something new. I took and pin and paper and analyzed my own music to find these mode patterns used the Internet to connect the dots. I didn't have some teacher point them out. so Im sorry I cant worry about your specifics.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
Im just going to stick with this. which is just pointing out different scaler patterns. all I intended to do.


Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
sometimes I say the wrong stuff by mistake, to your advantage. I wont let that stop me. insist or move on.


You've said a lot of wrong stuff. On purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
rolling in the deep is a tough song. It doesn't help its transposed from Cm to Am and a octave lower. I doubt you know what that means.


Everybody here knows what that means. Don't try to feed your ego after making so many ignorant claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
about the piano thing I dont know I most likely tuned my guitar by ear "just temperament" by mistake, instead of using a tuner. shit happens


So you decided to tell everybody that pianos and guitars are tuned differently because you messed up tuning a guitar? At least you know now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
timbre and pitch aren't the same they are not confused with one another.


Good thing he didn't say they were the same. I'd suggest rereading that post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
atleast I learned B dim is not the same as locrain pattern. I just assumed and now everyones an A**hole.


You don't think you've been an ass in this thread? The only difference between you and anybody else here is that everybody else here was right, and you were stupid and obnoxious.



I'm glad you've learned something, but after you learn something in an argument, you're supposed to say "sorry. I understand now. I'm glad I learned something." Not, "wah, I make mistakes, stahp being so mean to me!"
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:00 PM   #49
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #50
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please don't use being self-taught as an excuse to get shit wrong

i'm self-taught as well

difference is i did it correctly
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:32 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
Im just going to stick with this. which is just pointing out different scaler patterns. all I intended to do.

sometimes I say the wrong stuff by mistake, to your advantage. I wont let that stop me. insist or move on.

rolling in the deep is a tough song. It doesn't help its transposed from Cm to Am and a octave lower. I doubt you know what that means.

about the piano thing I dont know I most likely tuned my guitar by ear "just temperament" by mistake, instead of using a tuner. shit happens

timbre and pitch aren't the same they are not confused with one another.

atleast I learned B dim is not the same as locrain pattern. I just assumed and now everyones an A**hole.

I used the model patterns to learn different scales It really helped me navigate the fretboard, Gave me more stuff to practice for techniques aswell. I used chords and arpegeated chords to help navigate the fretboard aswell. This is how I learned the 5 box shapes except I have a better idea of where the extra notes are Im not tied to pentatonics. its kinda like an all in one for me. and the more I fool with it the more I learn. I can improvise to any song on the radio. I've been playing for 10 years

If I would have said oh Ill still be in A min or C maj might as well not practice that.
I don't make excuses not to learn something. or to not try something new. I took and pin and paper and analyzed my own music to find these mode patterns used the Internet to connect the dots. I didn't have some teacher point them out. so Im sorry I cant worry about your specifics.

The problem with tone deaf people, is that they don't realize they are.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:58 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
about the piano thing I dont know I most likely tuned my guitar by ear "just temperament" by mistake, instead of using a tuner. shit happens


It's possible, if you used harmonics to tune the guitar.


Quote:
timbre and pitch aren't the same


Never said they were. Reading comprehension issues, much?

Quote:
they are not confused with one another.


Never said that, either. What I did say is that some people get confused matching pitch across instruments that have vastly different timbres.

Quote:
atleast I learned B dim is not the same as locrain pattern. I just assumed and now everyones an A**hole.


You didn't "just assume." You said a huge number of wrong things, and then got snotty and obnoxious about them.

Everybody gets things wrong sometimes. If you had just said, "Oh, hey, sorry about that," and moved on, everybody would have forgiven and forgotten.

Instead you kept doubling down despite not knowing what you were talking about.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:09 PM   #53
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I made comments back to the ones making them at me without the quotes so you got offended. get over it. I'm not whining either so we are still all assumers one way or another.

self taught is no excuse i was only a little incorrect big deal your the whiners. and I didnt mean B note as the way I said it. I should have said B makes and Diminished chord when harmonized with C major or A minor. but I was thinking more about scale patterns then I was harmony.

as for that piano thing idk If I would entirely believe any of you. Ill bring up reaper sometime with the midi keyboard and compare it with my online guitar tuner

http://www.guitarforbeginners.com/onlinetuner.html
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:10 PM   #54
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Why hasn't this died yet? C'mon guys.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:19 PM   #55
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how hard is it to just admit you were wrong on multiple counts and not backtrack and try to justify it

joe pesci summed up your posts here quite well, so i'm not gonna waste any more time on it:

:-D out
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:30 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Hail

Thank you. You know I love these guys.

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Old 09-28-2012, 05:11 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmetalhead
and I didnt mean B note as the way I said it. I should have said B makes and Diminished chord when harmonized with C major or A minor.


Well, you'd think that when we pointed out that you were wrong, you could have clarified rather than doubling down.

It's hard to believe that's what you meant given what you actually wrote, but who knows, maybe your language skills are just really bad.


Quote:
as for that piano thing idk If I would entirely believe any of you. Ill bring up reaper sometime with the midi keyboard and compare it with my online guitar tuner


Given that we've been right on a bunch of stuff and you've been wrong on a bunch of stuff already, you might want to think about that.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:07 PM   #58
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http://theoreticalharmony.com/Scales/Other_Scales.html

heres some scales.
you should also know the major scale too.
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