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Old 09-27-2012, 04:36 PM   #21
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i don't know why you jumped on hess when i already name-drop'd lane lol

you could easily say lane had an otherworldly level of technical and musical prowess, and there's no contesting that, but i'm not gonna spend an hour writing an essay about how hess isn't the best thing under the sun

i haven't paid $35 a week or whatever it is to know hess's method, but if he suggests to use speed-block method practice without having spent several months or years working at individual techniques over time and constantly berating technical aspects of your playing, he's dumber than i thought. you even conceded that you shouldn't rush if you don't have a solid fundamental understanding, but at that level, you shouldn't be asking on a tablature music theory forum unless you're just a crappy player looking for a shortcut.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:37 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Slashiepie
I dont have much of a problem with your approach, if you mean Shawn Lane speed up clean it up later, i have a problem with Tom Hess being mentioned as a source.

Anyways there is no Scientific data to compare methods, but on the right hands and with the right mindset both will work. Shawn Lanes technique is easier to get wrong though and i would class tit as more advanced and harder to pull off correctly.

Going back to even slower speeds usually saves you the hassle of having the need to ogo back and rework bad habits, and yeah it may blow minds but it ends up increasing your overall speed treshold.

Whatever works

im not even really advocating slop it then fix it. I'm saying a time will come if you only practice speed through linear increases of BPM on a metronome, then you're going to hit a brick wall hard.

you can lessen that struggle by constantly engaging yourself at higher speeds so your body learns how to react to the subtle adjustments you need to make mentally & physically to accommodate pulling it off.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hail
i don't know why you jumped on hess when i already name-drop'd lane lol

you could easily say lane had an otherworldly level of technical and musical prowess, and there's no contesting that, but i'm not gonna spend an hour writing an essay about how hess isn't the best thing under the sun

i haven't paid $35 a week or whatever it is to know hess's method, but if he suggests to use speed-block method practice without having spent several months or years working at individual techniques over time and constantly berating technical aspects of your playing, he's dumber than i thought. you even conceded that you shouldn't rush if you don't have a solid fundamental understanding, but at that level, you shouldn't be asking on a tablature music theory forum unless you're just a crappy player looking for a shortcut.

i didnt "concede" that...i included that in my original post, bro.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #24
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i miss liam
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #25
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when did everyone here become so confrontational and overly concerned about being right, rather than just dispensing reasonable advice to people? ffs.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #26
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:56 PM   #27
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:09 PM   #28
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Hey.

If you want to see a pretty awesome guide on how to play fast with precision then click the guide in my sig.

I came across it a long time ago and it has helped me out TONS in my own playing. I think it will help you out as well so I think you should definitely give it a try.

There are some exercises on it that are great for practicing. There are also tons of videos on youtube by a guy (I forget his name though since its been a while) who teaches exercises and techniques on playing faster.

Good luck!
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #29
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Going back to what the TS was asking speed is a byproduct of playing cleanly. You can try this method: play what you're trying to play slow and not to a metronome (concentrate on playing each note cleanly and getting the muscle memory), then after a week or so try playing to a metronome slowly, then as you get better speed up the metronome. Unfortunatly this does take awhile but effective for me at least.

As for Tom Hess
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:15 PM   #30
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #31
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start with slow easy songs you'll enjoy. play more by ear. if its hard you need the practice.

If you get bored and you force yourself to do mindless practicing. That kinda stuff doesnt help you improve. you must stay focused even if its just for 15 to 20 min thats better then a hour of mindless non sense.

Its ok to push yourself see what you can do. Id practice slow a whole day and try it the next day give your mind rest.

you must train your muscles to remember these movements. this is called muscle memory, this is why you practice slow.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:13 AM   #32
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Ok here is the real secret to playing fast: Play modes, lots of them, insanely fast phrygian runs, light speed mixolydian songs, dorian legato. Set the metronome to 260 and play as fast as you can! tense up if you need it, ignore saying in time its overrated and it has no soul, sacrifice acuraccy and cleanliness for the time being Or you will risk playing forom your soul like Jimmy, mistakes happen! repeat them until they dissapear!

i suggest you also get the super duper hardcore extra effective practice planer and tracker from Tom Hess, its only 99,99 bucks a month ( reduced to 69,99 this month and reduced to 19,99 just today because youre the 100.000.000 subscriber) it will improve your playing insanely! excel sheets not included. There is tons of testimonials from ex meth addicts and brutal sweepers.

While we are at it **** music theory, learn scales all, the more the better, but dont learn notes, they are a waste of time, music is all,about shapes.

**** coffe, theres nothing like the smell of trolling in the morning.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
.... I'm saying a time will come if you only practice speed through linear increases of BPM on a metronome, then you're going to hit a brick wall hard....

mmm...not so sure about that...if someone had the time and patience to play cleanly...and was able to play cleanly as fast as a metronome could possibly go...they'd be playing pretty freakin fast....

Because fast is what its all about, right?

Maybe if we got Lane and Hess to measure each others fastness then this whole question could be solved

On a side note...Ive been thinking of launching a weather baloon with a camera and putting it on YouTube. I might attach a metronome instead of a Lego minifig..... hmmmm..... it'd go faster as gravity got less, no? Assuming its an old school mechanical metronome.....
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #34
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I'd like to point out to the TS that the vast, vast majority of people on this forum who've learnt good (and as a byproduct fast) technique have used the "start slow, play relaxed and economically and slowly speed up" method. Doing a bit of playing above the speed you can is okay sometimes to remove mental blocks, but doing it all the time seems like a backwards approach because at that speed you can't improve your muscle memory so you can't improve your technique. All you can do is get your brain used to the speed - This is important, yes, but you still need the technique (which you need to practice slowly) to back it up else you'll be playing absolute shite at 200bpm or whatever.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:06 AM   #35
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there were fast pickers, sweepers, and legato before hess or lane. I dont know much about either of them except whatever freebie videos are on youtube.

Something hess said that Ill always remember is. most guitar players myself included focus on one thing. weather it be a fast chromatic riff or a sweep. And you practice this one technique because its the riff you want to learn.. you practice and practice only to find hardly any improvements.

one of mine was the solo in bat country the chromatic trills at the end back and fourth. I just practiced picking chromatics. Its not an incorrect approach but I tell ya I made very little improvements picking chromatics. (not where I wanted the improvements to be anyway). my finger independence improved the most.

bottom line is all the techniques go hand in hand and just focusing on perfecting 1 thing at a time is not a good idea.

or you could do like john patrucie from dream theater and have and filing cabinet with all your practice date stored. equally practicing everything thats a real routine.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Anon17
I'd like to point out to the TS that the vast, vast majority of people on this forum who've learnt good (and as a byproduct fast) technique have used the "start slow, play relaxed and economically and slowly speed up" method. Doing a bit of playing above the speed you can is okay sometimes to remove mental blocks, but doing it all the time seems like a backwards approach because at that speed you can't improve your muscle memory so you can't improve your technique. All you can do is get your brain used to the speed - This is important, yes, but you still need the technique (which you need to practice slowly) to back it up else you'll be playing absolute shite at 200bpm or whatever.


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Old 09-28-2012, 12:14 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
You should definitely start slow with a metronome until you can really get a disciplined, consistent picking technique.

At that point there isn't a lot of harm in cranking the speed up and simply TRYING to play fast. A lot of issues happen when you try to linearly increase speed, because you will find the slower you play the less economical you will be, and guess what happens when you speed it up incrementally? You don't really deal with economizing your picking hand movements...you gotta force yourself into that barrier of uncomfortable shit to be able to hone the skill.

Try incorporate alternate picking on one note at high speed or with very repetitive patterns on one string, just to begin to feel how everything should be working at a higher speed.


I remember starting with alternate picking my scales and modes 16th notes on 65bpms. It was painful as hell but it forced me to listen and clean up my right hand technique. It took me about 2 years of incrementing speed up to 160bpms. That's about where I can play comfortably and clean on 16th notes (alternate picking). You can say that 160bpms is my threshold or barrier. I can do up to like 200bpms but in short sprints lol. But yeah, I understand what you say about pushing the boundaries once in a while.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:27 PM   #38
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I think anyone making an authoritative claim about technique should post an accompanying video of them playing.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by chronowarp
I think anyone making an authoritative claim about technique should post an accompanying video of them playing.


Wow, was this directed to me?
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:34 PM   #40
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Just in general.
Everyone seems to be an expert on what works and what doesn't, yet I have a feeling most of the people here couldn't play fast & clean if they had a gun to their head.

That's the nature of the internet, though. It'd be a lot more fruitful for the OP, because then he'd know whose advice to take seriously.
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