Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 09-29-2012, 05:52 PM   #21
dannyalcatraz
Registered User
 
dannyalcatraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Quality is not measured by how much binding is on the guitar.

It is if you are paying for binding and didn't get any.
__________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!
dannyalcatraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:05 PM   #22
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
It is if you are paying for binding and didn't get any.

Why would you pay for binding and never get any? That's so ******ed its unheard of.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:17 PM   #23
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowofravenwo
Ok, I wasn't sure if it was like EMGs which seem to sound better (or maybe I like to those tunings more) with Eb tuning or lower.
You're dealing with a 1/12 octave shift in center frequency when you tune to Eb standard.

Low E on the guitar is about 80 Hz. So, a 1/2 step away from that should be well within the bandwidth of most any pickup.

I expect it an "aural illusion" of heaviness due to the lower frequency, rather than issues with pickups.

OTOH, I would expect that it would have more effect on the loudspeakers. Enough to matter? Not sure, but I suppose that would depend on the size of the speakers, and both their resonant frequency and that of their enclosures.

Besides, the metal delinquents , (and I mean that with the utmost respect), are tuning way down as low as B, and playing 8 strings.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:20 PM   #24
dannyalcatraz
Registered User
 
dannyalcatraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Why would you pay for binding and never get any? That's so ******ed its unheard of.


As in, you ordered a guitar with binding, and the guitar you received did not have it.

Which could happen if 1) the guitar sent was the wrong one, or 2) if it was a factory reject that accidentally got sent out as passing inspection. (Seen both.)

Each is indicative of someone not doing their job properly, but the latter is indicative of deeper QC issues.
__________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Last edited by dannyalcatraz : 09-29-2012 at 07:26 PM.
dannyalcatraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:28 PM   #25
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
It is if you are paying for binding and didn't get any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Why would you pay for binding and never get any? That's so ******ed its unheard of.


The money that would go towards the time and materials to bind the neck of a low end Paul, goes into the paychecks of the high priced American workers employed by Gibson.

So, that's your contribution to "made in the USA". Tough it out with your crappy unbound neck and be happy.

Even a lowly Ibanez ART100 comes with a bound neck, and they cost about $300.00.

And to continue my unpatriotic rant, an Ibanez ART100, is probably fairly close to being as good as a low end Paul.

Stay tuned as Gibson produces Les Paul knockoffs in the US. Hey, it saves the expense of shipping them in from China....

Yes, I do feel much better after getting that off my chest! Thanks for asking.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 07:48 PM   #26
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
The money that would go towards the time and materials to bind the neck of a low end Paul, goes into the paychecks of the high priced American workers employed by Gibson.

So, that's your contribution to "made in the USA". Tough it out with your crappy unbound neck and be happy.

Even a lowly Ibanez ART100 comes with a bound neck, and they cost about $300.00.

And to continue my unpatriotic rant, an Ibanez ART100, is probably fairly close to being as good as a low end Paul.

Stay tuned as Gibson produces Les Paul knockoffs in the US. Hey, it saves the expense of shipping them in from China....

Yes, I do feel much better after getting that off my chest! Thanks for asking.

Are you a troll or just really moronic?

You do know that a lot of Gibson models never traditionally came with binding on the necks right?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.

Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE : 09-29-2012 at 07:51 PM.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:03 PM   #27
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Are you a troll or just really moronic?
Gosh, you're only going to condescend to giving me two choices to pick from? Most multiple choice questions get at least A, B, C, D, or E, all of the above.

Although, right off the top of my head, I'd hazard a guess that you're not really qualified to give me an IQ test.

I'm apparently someone who hurts Gibson fanboi's feelings...

Still, gingerbread costs money, a Gibson leaves it off low end models to cut production costs. That's fact. And when they put it on, it drives the price of a Les Paul Custom well over three grand Which, if I've interpreted the demeanor of this thread, is more than 3 times the TS' budget.

Now, run along and continue on trying to out clever Danny with that segment of the binding dialog. If I didn't know better, (and you wouldn't deny it), it would seem you're trying to troll him.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 09-29-2012 at 08:10 PM.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:05 PM   #28
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Gosh, you're only going to condescend to giving me two choices to pick from? Most multiple choice questions get at least A, B, C, D, or E, all of the above.

Although, right off the top of my head, I'd hazard a guess that you're not really qualified to give me an IQ test.

I'm apparently someone the hurts Gibson fanboi's feelings...

Are you honestly telling me that a $300 ART100 is better than a JP6 (for instance) because an ART has binding on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
2) if it was a factory reject that accidentally got sent out as passing inspection. (Seen both.)

If the guy who did the QC inspection was as blind as a bat perhaps.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.

Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE : 09-29-2012 at 08:16 PM.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #29
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Are you honestly telling me that a $300 ART100 is better than a JP6 (for instance) because an ART has binding on it?
It seems you can't read, at least not that well.
This is what I said:
Quote:
Even a lowly Ibanez ART100 comes with a bound neck, and they cost about $300.00.

And to continue my unpatriotic rant, an Ibanez ART100, is probably fairly close to being as good as a low end Paul.
What tripped you up, too many adverbs?

But yeah, you slap a pair of Seymour Duncan PAFs on an ART 100 and you've got a decent guitar.

I will say, they put the controls in a funny place on the ART series. To avoid a Gibson lawsuit, I suppose. And the jumbo frets of the Gibby get the nod to being better also.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:27 PM   #30
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Your original argument is that you were mad because Gibson don't put binding on their LP Studios though. So then you turn around and suggest that an ART100 is a better guitar for the reason that it has binding on it.

Let me rephrase that into your rhetoric.

"Apparantly a $300 guitar can be magically made better than a $1000 guitar because it has binding on the neck. Of course, ignoring the fact that many Gibsons (and Fenders, Musicman etc) never originally had bound necks (Flying V's, Explorers, LP Studio's, LP Jr's, Firebirds and so on), fuck those guitars, my ART100 has binding on the fingerboard! Oh, you just bought yourself a Musicman JP7 with a rosewood neck? HA! Loser! Get an ART! It has a plastic piece of binding on the neck which makes it 3 times the guitar it really is!"

Can you understand now how ridiculous you are sounding?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.

Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE : 09-29-2012 at 08:29 PM.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #31
dannyalcatraz
Registered User
 
dannyalcatraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
If the guy who did the QC inspection was as blind as a bat perhaps.


And yet, as I have said, I have seen it happen. It wasn't on my guitar- it was a buddy's- and a polite but firm letter got him the option of a replacement or a partial refund. He took the latter.

Hell- I once got a 2HB limited edition guitar when I ordered the 3HB version of it. They actually had the regional rep deliver the correct guitar to me in person. In addition, he offered me the 2HB one at a significant discount- they didn't want those guitars going back to the factory. I declined the offer. Even discounted, I couldn't afford the other one in addition to what I was buying.
__________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Last edited by dannyalcatraz : 09-29-2012 at 08:32 PM.
dannyalcatraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:36 PM   #32
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Your original argument is that you were mad because Gibson don't put binding on their LP Studios though. So then you turn around and suggest that an ART100 is a better guitar for the reason that it has binding on it.

Let me rephrase that into your rhetoric.

"Apparantly a $300 guitar can be magically made better than a $1000 guitar because it has binding on the neck. Of course, ignoring the fact that many Gibsons (and Fenders, Musicman etc) never originally had bound necks (Flying V's, Explorers, LP Studio's, LP Jr's, Firebirds and so on), fuck those guitars, my ART100 has binding on the fingerboard! Oh, you just bought yourself a Musicman JP7 with a rosewood neck? HA! Loser! Get an ART! It has a plastic piece of binding on the neck which makes it 3 times the guitar it really is!"

Can you understand now how ridiculous you are sounding?
Wrap your head around this, a Gibson isn't as good as a Gibson, is either supposed to be, perceived to be, or imagined to be.

So, to put this thread back on topic, dollar for dollar, I'd take $800.00 worth of Godin's product over $800.00 worth Gibson's any day of the week.

That's my opinion. You are entitled to yours, and I to mine.

I didn't start the bullshit about binding in the first place. That was you and Danny. I did put a certain spin on it, to be sure.

Now, if you want to run on about binding, run along and do it with Danny.

I'd buy an equivalent Godin, or a Carvin, before I'd buy a Gibson. If you want to call that trolling, be my guest.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 09-29-2012 at 08:38 PM.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:37 PM   #33
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
And yet, as I have said, I have seen it happen. It wasn't on my guitar- it was a buddy's- and a polite but firm letter got him the option of a replacement or a partial refund. He took the latter.

Hell- I once got a 2HB limited edition guitar when I ordered the 3HB version of it. They actually had the regional rep deliver the correct guitar to me in person. In addition, he offered me the 2HB one at a significant discount- they didn't want those guitars going back to the factory. I declined the offer. Even discounted, I couldn't afford the other one in addition to what I was buying.

So let me get this straight.

Your friend ordered a guitar from Gibson online that was supposed to have binding on it and it never came with binding when it arrived?

I'm sorry but i just cannot beleive how that can happen. Gibson make thousands of the same guitar every year; you would think that after making so many thousands of them, they wouldn't forget to bind the necks. How the hell could a guy from QC not see that there wasn't binding on the guitar? The guy had to have been blind.

Are you sure your friend actually bought the right guitar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captaincranky
Wrap your head around this, a Gibson isn't as good as a Gibson, is either supposed to be, perceived to be, or imagined to be.

Whatever, dude. You can call a Gibson shit just because it has no binding on the neck if you want, even though pretty much every standard Fender has never had binding on it. If you think those guitars are shit too, that's your call. But you're going to have to expect that people are going to strongly disagree with you.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.

Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE : 09-29-2012 at 08:44 PM.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:45 PM   #34
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
I'm sorry but i just cannot beleive how that can happen. Gibson make thousands of the same guitar every year; you would think that after making so many thousands of them, they wouldn't forget to bind the necks. How the hell could a guy from QC not see that there wasn't binding on the guitar? The guy had to have been blind.


"Allegedly", one of the members in the acoustic forum had a Taylor 12 string delivered with the octave string pairs reversed. Then the guitar collapsed, or to recount it word perfect, the guitar, "exploded".

QC issues? Who knows.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:48 PM   #35
dannyalcatraz
Registered User
 
dannyalcatraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Quote:
Are you sure your friend actually bought the right guitar?


If the mistake hadn't been theirs, he would not have gotten the refund.

Big companies make mistakes. Little companies make mistakes. It happens.
__________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!
dannyalcatraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:50 PM   #36
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
If the mistake hadn't been theirs, he would not have gotten the refund.

Big companies make mistakes. Little companies make mistakes. It happens.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to give me pics or it didn't happen.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 09:00 PM   #37
dannyalcatraz
Registered User
 
dannyalcatraz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Heh, I don't even know where that guy lives anymore- haven't seen him since the mid-1990s.

I might be able to get you the repair history on my first new car: I owned it 8 years with a mysterious engine rattle before some mechanic noticed that three of the four bolts holding the engine to the frame had never been put in place.
__________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Last edited by dannyalcatraz : 09-29-2012 at 09:09 PM.
dannyalcatraz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 10:53 PM   #38
Captaincranky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Whatever, dude. You can call a Gibson shit just because it has no binding on the neck if you want, even though pretty much every standard Fender has never had binding on it. If you think those guitars are shit too, that's your call. But you're going to have to expect that people are going to strongly disagree with you.
Not at all. you're reading interpretive skills are bordering on nil.

Bound necks are nice. Higher end Gibsons have them. When the "The Paul", and "Studio" models were introduced, the neck binding and maple cap were the first things to go. Those things were dropped because of cost, then spun as an advantage, out of necessity. Oooo, it makes the guitar lighter, big plus right?

The same was true when the Fed stripped Gibson of its ebony for fretboards, all of a sudden Obeche became "the best choice ever for fretboards.

As far as Fender goes, they may not have bound fretboards but with the exception of some signature models, a MIA Strat can be had for about $1500.00, a far cry from even a Les Paul Standard.

I really do wish you'd read what's written, instead of inventing what you think you'd like to have heard, or imagined you heard. Or what you seem to invent you've read, so that you can take offense at it.

Here's the facts, American workers make a lot of money, Asian workers, and to some extent Canadian workers don't. So, Gibson needs a bunch of mystique, bullshit, tall tales, and the buyers imagination to be manipulated, to make the perceived value, coincide with the actual price of the guitar.

Nobody said it was a bad product. There's more bang for the buck in so many other brands, they just don't say, "Gibson", on the headstock.

Although, I bet if they upped the quality of their Epiphone line by as little as 20%, they'd put their own American plants out of business. Now tell me, do you think they can't make MIA Gibson quality guitars in Asia, or they simply won't?

Last edited by Captaincranky : 09-29-2012 at 11:00 PM.
Captaincranky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 11:25 PM   #39
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
I'm sure it would cost Gibson all of $20 to bind a guitar. Just a guess, but it's hard to imagine a guitar factory, even one in the USA, paying too much for binding.

It's business. Gibson saves the Binding for their more expensive models so people will SEE that they are getting a better guitar. This is because many people, like captaincranky, see binding either as some sort of quality indicator, or a more aesthetic enhancement(much the same way as some people think a natural finish looks classier). Some of those people will pay more just for binding and Gibson knows this.

I do not believe Studios are made without binding to make them more affordable.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 12:20 AM   #40
Shadowofravenwo
Recent tube convert
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE
Quality is not measured by how much binding is on the guitar.


No, but if you paid for it and it's suppose to be there, and it's not, what does that say about the manufacturer?
Shadowofravenwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:37 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.