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View Poll Results: Leslie's Soda Tax
I'd vote in favor of the tax 52 37.68%
I'd vote against the tax 70 50.72%
I'm not sure 16 11.59%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2012, 12:21 AM   #61
crazysam23_Atax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Do you know how much sodium is in canned vegetables? Any nutritional value vegetables have is offset by the amount of salt put into canned product.

This is generally true. There's much healthier ways to can than how mass produced canned goods are done. Look up home canning sometime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCPhils
I don't really drink much soda though (Maybe once or twice a week ). I'll usually just get a Gatorade or Powerade.

I'm not fat at all. I would be pissed if they started taxing that stuff.

Iirc, the proposed NY tax on "soda" also covered sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson_SG_uzr55
Do you know how much sodium is in canned vegetables? Any nutritional value vegetables have is offset by the amount of salt put into canned product.


1 serving of Green Giant Whole Kernel Sweet Corn contains 320mg or 13% of your daily sodium intake. This is still, a much better alternative than McDonalds. Are fresh vegetables better for you? Absolutely.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:33 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Iirc, the proposed NY tax on "soda" also covered sports drinks like Gatorade and Powerade.

That's ******ed.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:33 AM   #64
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Instead of hamburgers, why not canned corn?
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCPhils
That's ******ed.


Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikLensherr


Instead of hamburgers, why not canned corn?


Actually I suggested chicken+vegetables, and canned vegetables if you can't afford actual vegetables, and then made the point that it was a better alternative, which it is.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:37 AM   #66
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There shouldn't be an additional tax just on soda. There should be hefty fees imposed on restaurants that offer sizes of soft drinks larger than say... 25 oz. and subsidies for healthy restaurants. I really don't like the idea of the government getting involved in what people eat, but when so many Americans are massive meatbags, something has to be done.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:37 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCPhils
That's ******ed.

The whole idea of a tax on sugary drinks is mega-******ed, which is why the citizens of NYC told the mayor he was being a moron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Charm
Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.
Doesn't mean we should tax fat people who decide they like Gatorade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChaz
There shouldn't be an additional tax just on soda. There should be hefty fees imposed on restaurants that offer sizes of soft drinks larger than say... 25 oz. and subsidies for healthy restaurants. I really don't like the idea of the government getting involved in what people eat, but when so many Americans are massive meatbags, something has to be done.

Why? Why should the government tell people how and what to eat?

Should the government also tax me, if I don't get 8+ hours of sleep?

By taxing people who buy unhealthy food or soft drinks larger than 25oz., the government is placing a penalty on those things, in an effort to prevent you from harming yourself. The government should NOT be paternalistic, man. Btw, here's a definition of paternalistic, for those who don't know what it means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
paternalistic

the system, principle, or practice of managing or governing individuals, businesses, nations, etc., in the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children


Do you really want the government saying, "This is bad for you. We're taxing it, so you now find it harder to do."
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:39 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Charm
Sports drinks still contain a ton of calories and sodium.

See, the idea behind them is that athletes need a lot of both of those things.

Fat people however, don't.

I don't really care. I'm not fat and I like the way they taste.

Plus, I have to walk to and from classes.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:40 AM   #69
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I'm torn on this one... I'm more or less for it. The problem is that taxing soda isn't the best solution, but the only solution that might actually happen. Restaurants not offering such enormous sizes would help a little, but too many would complain of getting ripped off for getting less for the same price.

The root of the problem though, comes from corn subsidies. As much as HFCS supporters want to say it's not unhealthy they're (sort of) wrong. The cheapness of HFCS due to corn subsidies is unhealthy... it makes soft drinks way too cheap.


Leading causes of death in the US, 2009:

Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

Heart disease, some cancers, stroke, and diabetes can all be attributable to obesity. Obviously not all of these deaths are directly caused obesity, but obesity increases someones chances for any of those 4, among a lot of other things.

Just under a third of all adults in the US are a healthy weight. On average, obese people pay about $1,400/year more on healthcare. Medicare pays about $1,700 more than paid for normal weight people, and Medicaid pays about $1,000 than paid for normal weight people.

In the 70s, the US implemented some sugar tariffs and started subsidizing corn sometime after that. With the corn subsidy bringing the cost of corn, and therefore HFCS down, farmers realized in the 80s they could grow a massive amount of corn and get paid for in. Im 2007, another government initiative to promote ethanol as fuel as helped drive down the cost of corn some more. The last link is a really good article about the subsidies and some of the effects.




Sauces:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/PDFs/stat904z.pdf
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/01...made-us-fatter/
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:42 AM   #70
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Well I'm not in favor of the taxes in the first place. I don't really care if you kill yourself by drinking 8 gallons of Poweraid in a half hour.

Just don't ask me scrape your corpse off the sidewalk.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:42 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
The government shouldn't be paternalistic. And you, as an adult in full possession of your mental faculties, should be fully able to make healthy choices. That said, no one should force you to make healthy choices.


Do you think the dietary habits of a lot of western countries reflects that? I don't mean to call them stupid, but it's obviously not that simple.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:44 AM   #72
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Against it. It's just stupid.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by The Charm
Well I'm not in favor of the taxes in the first place. I don't really care if you kill yourself by drinking 8 gallons of Poweraid in a half hour.

Just don't ask me scrape your corpse off the sidewalk.

I don't want to OD on Gatorade
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:45 AM   #74
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i voted for, just so that maybe, just maybe, we would get to see mass protests in which fat people gather at 7-Elevens everywhere to raid slurpee machines
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:46 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Mudmen190
Do you think the dietary habits of a lot of western countries reflects that? I don't mean to call them stupid, but it's obviously not that simple.

Yes, it is. Most people fully know that eating a hamburger at McDonald's is not healthy. Those who decide to do that are no less aware of the risks of continually eating unhealthy foods than those who decide not to eat unhealthy foods. The point is, no one should try to force (meaning make it illegal) or coerce (meaning tax) you into living a healthy lifestyle.

Edit:
See my above post (post #67) for more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCPhils
I don't want to OD on Gatorade

Don't worry, man. I got you. I, as an advocate of non-paternalism, will buy you a stomach pump machine. That way, whenever you drink too much Gatorade, you can just have someone attach the machine and let it do its thing. It'll be painful, but you'll be fully able to get back to drinking Gatorade in no time!
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:50 AM   #76
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For. A ban I think is stupid and counterproductive. But taxing it I like. It's not like you're going to die if you have a glass of water instead of a bottle of Coke, it's a luxury item, and there's no freedom being impinged more than any other sales tax by taxing it.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:51 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Yes, it is. Most people fully know that eating a hamburger at McDonald's is not healthy. Those who decide to do that are no less aware of the risks of continually eating unhealthy foods than those who decide not to eat unhealthy foods. The point is, no one should try to force (meaning make it illegal) or coerce (meaning tax) you into living a healthy lifestyle.


But are we morally obligated, as a society, to promote the health of ourselves and our peers? Is it not to the benefit of society as a whole if most people are healthy?

As I said in my first post, I'm not really for taxing it, but I think it's the only solution to the problem that could actually happen. And obesity is starting to put a large strain on our healthcare system and, as I mentioned in my first post Medicare and Medicaid (government programs!) pay much more per obese person than normal weight person on those programs. Surely, everyone here against the tax wouldn't be happy that the government is having to pay more to for the healthcare of people on government programs who are overweight.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:54 AM   #78
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I, personally, (were I of voting age) would vote in favor. The shit is not healthy for you. I love soda, but when you think about it, you're paying taxes for people to be obese. They get medication for their obesity-related health issues from government-funded healthcare programs, which are funded by your tax dollars.

Sure, it puts that burden on the poor, as they are the largest soda-drinking demographic, but they could buy, say, water, and maybe be a little bit healthier for it? They aren't going to die of a lack of soda. If it changes what they spend their money on, great, that's wonderful, they'll be healthier, huzzah. If not, at least they're paying a little more money towards their own medication.

Basically, what ChrisBW said. I wrote that stuff and then read his post, and I don't feel like erasing what I wrote. So, there you have it. Again, I'm a minor, so this wouldn't even really affect me, beyond what little soda I do drink. Economically, it just makes sense to me, not to mention the obvious health benefits of consuming less soda.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:55 AM   #79
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:57 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by ChrisBW
But are we morally obligated, as a society, to promote the health of ourselves and our peers? Is it not to the benefit of society as a whole if most people are healthy?

Why exactly should the government be promoting the health of society? If it's going to do that, shouldn't it be done in a non-intrusive manner, like running PSAs? Besides, can't people educate society on the benefits of good health? Isn't that much better than taxing pop?


Btw, just take a look at cigarettes/chewing tobacco. A few decades back, the US government decided that smoking and chewing tobacco was unhealthy. (Which it is, and research proves this.) However, people still smoke and still chew. It could be argued that by taxing the hell out of tobacco, more people quit. However, it could also be argued that those people were going to quit anyway. Taxing something for health reasons doesn't magically mean that everyone decides to stop doing it (or, in the case of tobacco, new people don't pick up the habit). All you really do is place a burden upon those who are poor but also wish to enjoy whatever unhealthy behavior is in question.
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