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Old 09-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #1
Blktiger0
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Re-Tube Time, Advice Needed *cough* Cath and 311 *cough*

I'm going to have to re-tube my Vengeance head very soon, and I was looking for some thoughts, advice, and opinions on what tubes I should use. The Vengeance uses 6 preamp tubes and 4 power tubes, and can use pretty much any power tube available.

Budget: Under $200 for sure, the cheaper the better. The sets I'm looking at are around $150, and I would rather not get any more expensive than that.

Genres: Groove Metal, Thrash Metal, Progressive Metal. Machine Head, Lazarus A.D., Lamb of God, Children of Bodom, Black Label Society, Dream Theater, etc.

What I'm thinking is the following:

V1 + V2 Tung Sol Re-Issue
V3 - V5 JJ ECC83S
V6 Sovtek 12AX7LPS

As for Power Tubes, I'll go with JJ 6L6's if I go 6L6, due to price, but I've been thinking about trying KT77's. Anyone have experience with these and what they'll do to your amp's sound? I can mix two of them with two 6L6's in my amp if I want, so that's a thought too.

Last edited by Blktiger0 : 09-30-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:55 AM   #2
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I'm not that keen on the Tungsols unless the amp is particularly dark. If you just want a bit more sparkle than a JJ ECC83S I'd try a JJ ECC803 instead - unless it's a combo. ECC803's and combos don't play nice. In most amps the Tungsols just sound brittle. I don't know the Vengeance so I can't really comment.

I haven't had a lot to do with KT77's but you can think of them as sitting somewhere between a 6L6 and an EL34. A lot of people like them for that reason - a 6L6 with a few more mids.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:02 AM   #3
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The Vengeance came with Tun Sol's in V1 and V2 stock. Not even re-brands, actual Tung Sol's. It's a pretty dark amp, plus the speakers in my cab are fairly dark. That's why I wanted to stick Tung Sol's in V1 and V2, since those seem to be working pretty well so far. I would only be ordering more as backups.

As for the KT77's would it be safe to say that if I'm deciding between JJ 6L6's and JJ KT77's, then they are going to be fairly similar in terms of attributes as compared to two different brands? The KT77's are sounding pretty appealing. They have the bass response I like with more of an EL34 mid and a top-end sparkle/sizzle that the KT's are known for.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:09 AM   #4
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Grab more tubes than you need. You need spares anyway. When you order the JJ ECC83S tubes get them to throw in an ECC803 or two. Then test them against the tungsols, esp in V1 and V2. Trust your ears. I really like the ECC803. They have the balls of the ECC83S but a bit more top end. Plus of course they are low noise.

Yeah, all JJ's seem to have a feel to them. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if a JJ KT77 sounded closer to a JJ 6L6 than a Tungsol KT77.



Btw, you do realise that this is all pretty subtle and only you are going to notice don't you?
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:18 AM   #5
Blktiger0
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Yep, but in the end, it's my ears I'm trying to please

I mean, I rant and rave about the Cobalt Slinky's, when in reality, the difference is so subtle that they aren't something anyone else in the world would have noticed about my sound. When I put in the first set and plugged my guitar in, though, they gave me exactly what I had been looking for out of my strings, and I was pretty skeptical about them from the beginning.

EDIT:
Maybe I'll grab an extra ECC83S only one Tung Sol, and two ECC803's

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Old 10-01-2012, 03:35 AM   #6
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Unless of course you go on the hunt for NOS tubes. That can get a bit addictive. Start doing the ebay things in the coming years. You'll get a few duds but you can also come across some real gems. Just watch what floats by and pick out the things that intrigue you most.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:38 AM   #7
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KT77s are probably my favorite tube ever. Huge lows while still having plenty of cut in the mids. Not as sizzly asEL-34s, certainly a bit darker, but not nearly as boring as a 6L6 or KT88. Perfect in a Recto, I'd assume they'd sound awesome in the Egnater as well.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatrixClaw
KT77s are probably my favorite tube ever. Huge lows while still having plenty of cut in the mids. Not as sizzly asEL-34s, certainly a bit darker, but not nearly as boring as a 6L6 or KT88. Perfect in a Recto, I'd assume they'd sound awesome in the Egnater as well.


That's what I'm looking for. Almost exactly.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:38 PM   #9
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I have a second question to ask that goes along with this one, plus an addition to make to my Power Tube issue.

The Rhythm Guitarist of my band is going to need a re-tube as well. He runs a Mesa Rectoverb. I don't know what he's looking for tone-wise, but his tone for the band would be along similar lines as mine. Let's just assume he's wanting a "generic" Groove/Thrash/Progressive Metal tone. What should he run in his Recto?

The new issue to my Power Tubes is this: his amp runs one set of 6L6's, and mine runs 2 sets. If he blows a tube and we would have no spares (for some horrible reason) we could snatch a pair from my amp and I can run in 60w mode, which only runs two of my power tubes (my manual tells me which two, but I can't think of it off of the top of my head) so that we could finish the gig. However, if I'm running KT77's, will this still be possible? I guess my question here is, can his Recto handle KT77's, is the bias different enough that it would ruin the tubes and/or amp, and would that be bad for the tubes to swap them out of my amp, into his, then back into mine?
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:30 PM   #10
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i am lovin the jan phillips NOS 12at7 in the last position. highly recommend.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:25 PM   #11
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I've been recommended the JAN Phillips for the PI before, but I don't really have the luxury of time or extra money to spend on getting one. 311 recommended me that, the Sovtek LPS, and I think a Penta Labs 9th Gen for my PI, and I decided to go with the Sovtek.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:31 AM   #12
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you realize the jan phillips is readily available and is only about 15 bucks right? it is the cheapest and most commonly stocked NOS tube. you can go online and probably buy it from the same supplier you are buying the rest of the tubes.

tubedepot, dougstubes, thetubestore, etc.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:17 AM   #13
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I'm ordering from Antique Electronic Supply ( www.tubesandmore.com ) and I haven't been able to find them on their site. They have the cheapest tubes I've found and free shipping, so my plan has been to go with them. What are alternate names for a 5751 tube?
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:23 AM   #14
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I have 3 Jan Phillips 5751's in my DRRI and love them. I have played around with Tung Sols and Sovteks, I'll keep the Jan Phillips in thank you.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:54 PM   #15
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I don't remember recommending the Penta Labs for PI

I had one in V2 when I had my Valveking and it was a fine tube.

for you....

JJ 12AX7 or JAN Phillips 5751.

Pretty much what Cath said in post #2

The 5751 in the PI has more clarity but for me the JJ has more depth and harmonics imo
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:12 PM   #16
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Here's the post:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...058&postcount=5

What are the characteristics of a Sovtek LPS in the PI? If I can't find the JAN Phillips on AES then I'll have to go with either a JJ or Sovtek (unless you can find something else on there that's still no more than $15 that would work). The link for the site is www.tubesandmore.com it's kinda a pain in the ass to navigate through their tube selection.

EDIT: AES definitely doesn't have JAN Phillips 5751's. They have a few other brands of 5751 tubes, and some other NOS 12AX7's, but no JAN Phillips.

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Old 10-02-2012, 08:42 PM   #17
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^


I must have been on drugs or something
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #18
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your trying to drop 150 on tubes for your 650-1000 dollar amp and your worried about 5-10 dollar shipping?

are you out of the states or something?

to my knowledge, the only newly made 5751s are sovtek and JJs, which just came out. both a 5751 and a 12at7 will work in v1 or in the PI.

a 12at7 is not recommended in many v1 positions except in fenders and such. a 5751 works very well in v1, to reduce a tad of gain and add clarity. a 12at7 is generally regarded as a poor "tone" tube but a great PI tube.

thats why i would say if you want, 5751 in v1 and a 12at7 in the last position. personally, i would stick with a 12ax7 in v1 unless you really are trying to knock of some gain and add clarity. especially for high gain.

if it were me ( the tinkerer that i am) i would go with a 12ax7 in v1 first and then do a 5751 later if i saw the need for improvement over say a tung sol 12ax7 or whatever.

i guess i never had these issues cause i bought 1 at a time, so i was on a mission for something specific. i am also a moron who paid 15 bucks worth of shipping for 45 bucks worth of product.

oh well. i get in a zone with my buying.....
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:58 PM   #19
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It's saving me on shipping, plus their tubes are cheaper. Some are more expensive, but the grand total ends up cheaper than any other site I've tried. I don't know what your income is, but to me, saving $10 on shipping means I have $10 more for my gas tank or food. Why pay for something you can get for free? Either way, I'm not really having clarity issues. I'm just looking for what will give me the best tone. If I decide I need more clarity later on, I can always grab a JAN Phillips 5751 from another site.
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