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Old 10-03-2012, 12:25 PM   #81
mdc
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Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
If you go from a C Major to a G Major, thats a half cadence.

G-?-F-C-G

In C major, thats: V-?-IV-I-V

Which is a perfectly logical progression.

If you analyze it in G, you get: I-?-bVII-IV-I, but that bVII does absolutely NO GOOD if its trying to pull back to G Major. But if instead you process the bVII as a IV chord, you get better results.

It's a Vc. The G and E notes are decorative, inner pedal and passing note respectively. If we're going down the classical route.

The open e note moves by step to a chord tone. It's just not so obvious cuz the progression is played as block chords.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:30 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
If you go from a C Major to a G Major, thats a half cadence.

G-?-F-C-G

In C major, thats: V-?-IV-I-V

Which is a perfectly logical progression.

If you analyze it in G, you get: I-?-bVII-IV-I, but that bVII does absolutely NO GOOD if its trying to pull back to G Major. But if instead you process the bVII as a IV chord, you get better results.

What's not logical about I-V-bVII-I?

It's a deceptive cadence then a plagal cadence. bVII is probably one of the most common borrowed chords in a major key.

The shit is a "logical progression"? Are we gonna bust out the wheel from Music Theory 101 that says V-->I, sometimes vi. IV--> or IV-->ii or IV-->I
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:48 PM   #83
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Ok, I knew I was making a mistake asking Hail to clarify his stance on modes, I'm far from understanding them. Thanks sleepy_head for trying to clear that up, but I'm just gonna stop thinking of modes altogether and worry about other areas of theory.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:52 PM   #84
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Ok, I knew I was making a mistake asking Hail to clarify his stance on modes, I'm far from understanding them. Thanks sleepy_head for trying to clear that up, but I'm just gonna stop thinking of modes altogether and worry about other areas of theory.

good man!
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #85
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What's not logical about I-V-bVII-(IV)-I?


I'm going to assume that from the C Major (IV), than you go back to G (I).

When you play that F Major (bVII) you naturalize the F, then move to a C Major, and then G Major. (I guess we're saying the progression ends on G Major?)

When you naturalize the F, it weakens the idea of a (I) Cadence on G major.

Because you did, We're going to call that second chord D Major.

In G Major the progression is: I-V-bVII-IV-I

In C Major the progression is: V-II-IV-I-V

Both of these work out perfectly fine, but I feel that treating the progression as though its in C Major would work better, as the F# is naturalized before the cadence.
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:12 PM   #86
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I wonder what's stranger...a bVII borrowed chord or a V/ii that doesn't even attempt to resolve.

If you really believe what you're preaching see how much you like sound of an F natural over all the changes except the D...Or better yet...just sit there hitting a C continuously over the progression, tell me that C sounds like home...
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #87
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I wonder what's stranger...a bVII borrowed chord or a V/ii that doesn't even attempt to resolve.

If you really believe what you're preaching see how much you like sound of an F natural over all the changes except the D...Or better yet...just sit there hitting a C continuously over the progression, tell me that C sounds like home...




I've played it both ways. I like mine better.

I'm done.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:36 PM   #88
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i want a recording of you playing a C like it's the tonic.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:43 PM   #89
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Clint is the man (:
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:52 PM   #90
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How do you play your progression rhythmically, TS? Is it 4/4 time, one chord per bar etc or...?

Just wondering, cuz harmonic rhythm can have an affect on how a progression resolves.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #91
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This section is in 3/4 timing like the rest of the song. The rhythm I play these chords in is
q ss q q q q. q = eigth, s = sixteenth. Take what you like from that(: I've never heard of harmonic rhythm, care to elaborate?
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:19 PM   #92
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The rhythm by which the harmony moves.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:21 PM   #93
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Harmonic rhythm is a fancy classical term that just describes the rate at which the harmonies change. Nothing more than that.

So in this case it's not too busy, it's just one chord per bar. It's not to do with the strumming or anything like that. That type of rhythm, and harmonic rhythm are two different things.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:25 PM   #94
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Gotcha. So harmonic rhythm is more likely to occur within the guitar solo itself and how the notes played accompany the rhythm of the chords being strummed? (:
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:30 PM   #95
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Gotcha. So harmonic rhythm is more likely to occur within the guitar solo itself and how the notes played accompany the rhythm of the chords being strummed? (:

No, no.

It's not something that "occurs"...it is just a description of the rate at which the chord changes are happening.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:09 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by TheAscendant
Gotcha. So harmonic rhythm is more likely to occur within the guitar solo itself and how the notes played accompany the rhythm of the chords being strummed? (:


"Harmonic rhythm" might be described as "How often the chords change".

For example, the chords might change:

Once every 4 bars - Slower
Once every 2 bars
Once every bar
Twice every bar
Once every beat - Faster

But (there's always a but), it has more to do with how often the chord root changes than it does to do with embellishment. So if you get the following progression with the chords changing each bar:

|| C | CMaj7 | F | FMaj7 ||

The chords change once every bar, but because the root of C and the root of CMaj7 is C, and the root of F and of FMaj7 is F, we might say the harmonic rhythm is "once every 2 bars"

Given the above "Harmonic rhythm" might be better expressed as "How often the chord root changes".

But (there's always a but) diminished 7th chords (root, minor 3rd, diminished 5th, diminished 7th) contain four notes, and any of those notes can be the root so you have to pay attention when there are diminished 7th chords involved because "how often the chord root changes" can trip you up if the same dim 7 chord is spelled differently.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:25 AM   #97
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It's not about logic. It sounds resolved on the G and it doesn't on the C. That's really all there is to it. You don't "treat" it like it's in C major. It is in G. That's all.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:50 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
Nope, resolves to C.

Also, the G and F natural are more prominent than the single use of the F#, so they outweigh it, and you can call the F# a passing tone with little weight in comparison.



1-3-5-11
3rd-3rd-7th



1-3-5-7-11
3rd-3rd-3rd-Tritone



Because they don't have the tritone between scale degrees 7 and 4.

Maj7(#11) are really awesome though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
If you go from a C Major to a G Major, thats a half cadence.

G-?-F-C-G

In C major, thats: V-?-IV-I-V

Which is a perfectly logical progression.

If you analyze it in G, you get: I-?-bVII-IV-I, but that bVII does absolutely NO GOOD if its trying to pull back to G Major. But if instead you process the bVII as a IV chord, you get better results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Life Is Brutal
I'm going to assume that from the C Major (IV), than you go back to G (I).

When you play that F Major (bVII) you naturalize the F, then move to a C Major, and then G Major. (I guess we're saying the progression ends on G Major?)

When you naturalize the F, it weakens the idea of a (I) Cadence on G major.

Because you did, We're going to call that second chord D Major.

In G Major the progression is: I-V-bVII-IV-I

In C Major the progression is: V-II-IV-I-V

Both of these work out perfectly fine, but I feel that treating the progression as though its in C Major would work better, as the F# is naturalized before the cadence.


Last edited by mdc : 10-04-2012 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:45 PM   #99
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what have i done
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #100
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what have i done

you've officially memefied clint eastwood!
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