Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 09-30-2012, 05:19 AM   #1
weirdzaid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
What scale to follow next?

Right so, i have a very poor understanding of theory.i have a few questions, would be grateful if someone answers them .

First of all , when playing chords, major and minor, should certain chords not be played? like if i'm on E major, can i play it following A B C D E F G Major or minor chords? or are some not ment to go after that?

another question i have is, lets say , i'm playing A minor , D minor , E minor chords , and i wanna solo over them, do i have to use an a minor pentatonic of the a minor chord, and then switch to d minor pentatonic when then chord changes? and so on?

Last one is, if i play an A minor chord, can i play lead on it in any position? or do i have to relate to where the chords being play?

And what is a key? " Key of g major "
weirdzaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 05:52 AM   #2
Myshadow46_2
Join the pack.
 
Myshadow46_2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
1) You can play any chord that you feel sounds good.

2) that chord progression is a i iv v in the key of A minor. You play A minor over the top. you Dan us the A minor pentatonic scale. It is the A minor scale less 2 notes. Bear in mind that you could play any note over the top. It won't necessarily sound good, but a strong grasp of theory will help here.

3) You can play anywhere on the fretboard.

4) A key pretty much denotes two things. the notes contained in that key and the note that the piece of music resolves too.

I am sure my answers will have raised other questions. You could probably do with getting the basics down. A teacher could help with this. Or there are some good resources (and plenty of bad ones) one the Internet. http://www.musictheory.net is a good one
Myshadow46_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 07:31 AM   #3
Flibo
I like dissonance.
 
Flibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
If you're in the key of G major your chord progression will resolve in a G major chord i.e. G major will sound like home. For example, a I - IV - V - IV progression is G - C - D - C. One view about scales is that if you're in a certain key -- such as G major -- you're playing the G major scale. You can play G major over the progression I mentioned there.

If we're being strictly diatonic, then in a major key the diatonic chords are I - ii - iii - IV - V - vii - viio. If that doesn't tell you much, I can recommend this series of articles to you: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/colu...the_guitar.html
__________________
E:-6
B:-0
G:-5
D:-6
A:-0
E:-3
Flibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 08:21 AM   #4
metalmetalhead
Panterica
 
metalmetalhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: tn
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
Right so, i have a very poor understanding of theory.i have a few questions, would be grateful if someone answers them .

First of all , when playing chords, major and minor, should certain chords not be played? like if i'm on E major, can i play it following A B C D E F G Major or minor chords? or are some not ment to go after that?

another question i have is, lets say , i'm playing A minor , D minor , E minor chords , and i wanna solo over them, do i have to use an a minor pentatonic of the a minor chord, and then switch to d minor pentatonic when then chord changes? and so on?

Last one is, if i play an A minor chord, can i play lead on it in any position? or do i have to relate to where the chords being play?

And what is a key? " Key of g major "


In most simple songs theres no switching scales along with the chords. The notes within the chords match the notes in the scale your playing. You can learn this by harmonizing the chords within the scale..this also tells us what quality the chords will be.

do you realize A B C D E F G A is the A minor scale? start that at C you have C major.

You have your A minor scale. now look at D major triad. its D A F# isnt it? so to make it match the scale we flatten the F# to an F giving us A 1 b3 5 minor triad the chord is a D minor.

you can try it with every chord to any scale you want.
__________________
Its all fun and games till someone has to take a drug test

check out my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/user/stevenebowen
metalmetalhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:19 AM   #5
weirdzaid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Thanks so much guys for all the input , and the sources u guys gave to help with my theory, i will follow all , and read and concentrate everything u guys said Thanks!
weirdzaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 09:34 AM   #6
sea`
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
First of all , when playing chords, major and minor, should certain chords not be played? like if i'm on E major, can i play it following A B C D E F G Major or minor chords? or are some not ment to go after that?

Play whatever sounds good. You can work out the theory later. That said, most songs play the same chords in the same scale throughout. Key changes are pretty uncommon in any sort of popular music, though you will see it a lot in jazz and metal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
another question i have is, lets say , i'm playing A minor , D minor , E minor chords , and i wanna solo over them, do i have to use an a minor pentatonic of the a minor chord, and then switch to d minor pentatonic when then chord changes? and so on?

The A minor scale would work best. Switching between scales and arpeggios for different chords can also work just fine. You can either play diatonically (one scale whose notes match all the chords in your progression) or you can play a new scale or arpeggio over every chord, which tends to sound more interesting and is more difficult, but to be honest even excellent players don't always do this. Get comfortable playing diatonically before you move on, because you will need the coordination and muscle memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
Last one is, if i play an A minor chord, can i play lead on it in any position? or do i have to relate to where the chords being play?

Look around the fretboard and find any A notes. See them? 5th fret 6th string, open 5th string, 7th fret 4th string, etc. Those are your roots. You can play the A minor scale starting from any of those positions - the shape and fingering stays the same (unless you have to deal with the B string of course).

Basically, all chords can relate to a scale, which of course are A B C D E F G. What changes on each chord is which of those notes is appropriate, and whether you want those notes to be minor or major - otherwise you end up with notes that are sharp or flat to what you should be playing, and those don't sound good. The major and minor tonality of notes is relative to one another, not something built into notes themselves - that's why if you play the major scale, the scale and chords sound "happy", but if you play one or two notes individually they won't sound the same way. That's also why you can go from a major to a minor chord just by changing a single note, and the feel of the whole thing changes (try this with E shape barre chords to see what I mean).

Things get more complicated when you learn the entire major/minor scale across the whole fretboard - so long as you maintain the feel of the root of the scale, you can start or end on any notes in that scale anywhere on the fretboard. That's how players get those interesting, flowing solos that move up and down and don't just sit in the same box position the whole time.

I highly recommend you memorize the entire major/minor scale, learn how to play it smoothly from position to position, then learn how its modes work. Once you do you will be able to play a lead or melody across the entire fretboard and it will sound good over almost every song. When you get good at that you almost won't need to think about theory at all, your ear should be good enough that you can simply tell what will work and what won't before you play it.

Last edited by sea` : 09-30-2012 at 09:43 AM.
sea` is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #7
HotspurJr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
Right so, i have a very poor understanding of theory.i have a few questions, would be grateful if someone answers them .

First of all , when playing chords, major and minor, should certain chords not be played? like if i'm on E major, can i play it following A B C D E F G Major or minor chords? or are some not ment to go after that?


Theory will help you get oriented here.

You start with the harmonized scale, which is I ii iii VI V vi viidim.

Each roman numeral refers to a degree of the scale. Capitals mean major chords, lower case means minor chords.

But bear in mind that those are SCALE DEGREES, not letters. So in E major it's E F#m G#m A B C#m D#dim.

But that's just the starting point. the bIII, bVI, and bVII are also very common. In E major, that's G, C, and D. The iv is very common (Am).

And it goes deeper when you start dealing with stuff like tritone substitution and other complex ideas. But the above will actually cover probably at least 80% of major-key rock songs, at least.

Quote:
another question i have is, lets say , i'm playing A minor , D minor , E minor chords , and i wanna solo over them, do i have to use an a minor pentatonic of the a minor chord, and then switch to d minor pentatonic when then chord changes? and so on?


You an do either.

Lots of people would play A minor (not necessarily the pentatonic) over the whole thing.

You could ALSO play the pentatonic for each chord (switching Am pent to Dm pent to Em pent.) You can do that with even more complicated chord progressions (using major pentatonics for major chords) but bear in mind that it's hard to make sound good unless you can switch from one scale to another seamlessly.

Worth pointing out that, in this example, what notes you're talking about:

Am: A B C D E F G
Am pent: A C D E G
Dm pent: D F G A C
Em pent: E G A B D

In other words, you're staying within Am in this particular example.

[QUOTES]
Last one is, if i play an A minor chord, can i play lead on it in any position? or do i have to relate to where the chords being play?[/QUOTES]

Yup. The notes are the notes. Doesn't matter where you find the notes on the neck, they're the same notes.

Quote:
And what is a key? " Key of g major "


This means that the song resolves to a G note and has a major tonality - the G major will sound like "home."

Your normal "starting point" for notes and chords will be those that are diatonic to G major - those notes included in G major. (G A B C D E F#) but bear in mind that you may well use other notes as well. Solos will generally be grounded in either G major or G min pentatonic (the latter for a bluesey sound) but other notes may be used as well.

I strongly encourage you to download the functional ear trainer from miles.be (it's free) and to make it a regular part of your practice routine. It will make a big difference in your development as a musician, because all of this needs to flow from your ear. "Flowing from your ear" doesn't just mean "it sounds good to me," but rather being able to hear the different scale degrees in context.
HotspurJr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:04 AM   #8
weirdzaid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
This is really confusing but i'm going to keep reading at it, and trying to apply it simultaneously. I mean, i just tried soloing over Aminor, Dminor , Eminor chords,

and i soloed over these chords in an A minor pentatonic scale in all 5 positions + an octave higher, and it sounded really good and nice.

i guess thats because i know the a minor pentatonic scale well, i'm going to learn the d minor and e minor pentatonics and try switch between those scale as the chord changes. see how that works out, please point out if any of this is " wrong " .

And hotspur, i've never seen such a nice and detailed yet simple way of explaining those. Thanks so much!

Last edited by weirdzaid : 10-02-2012 at 05:32 AM.
weirdzaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:45 AM   #9
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
That'll work, but I have a feeling you're going to end up with really fragmented weird sounding lines, because you're most likely going to be jumping to new shapes per chord...

The notes are all valid...but organize them in a way that makes it easy for you to play naturally.

Over Am-Dm-Em...why not just play the A natural minor scale? All you need to do is add 2 notes to the A minor pent shape you already know.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:22 PM   #10
links136
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
This is really confusing but i'm going to keep reading at it, and trying to apply it simultaneously. I mean, i just tried soloing over Aminor, Dminor , Eminor chords,

and i soloed over these chords in an A minor pentatonic scale in all 5 positions + an octave higher, and it sounded really good and nice.

i guess thats because i know the a minor pentatonic scale well, i'm going to learn the d minor and e minor pentatonics and try switch between those scale as the chord changes. see how that works out, please point out if any of this is " wrong " .

And hotspur, i've never seen such a nice and detailed yet simple way of explaining those. Thanks so much!


You don't really need to switch a soloing scale for a song. You only need to keep it in its key, it could work but it adds unneeded complexity in my opinion. Also, aside from writing songs in the major or minor scale,

(ie, C Dm Em F G Am Bdim)

you can also add in a 3rd or 5th at any time. At least what I call a third, which is say from E to G, or F to G#, or A to C. and a 5th as in from a Am to D, or E to b, as well as change up any chord to a minor or major, add in a 7th see what sound you get.

For example, from C to Dm to F to G# to D# to A# to C. Even though the sharps arn't apart of C major they fit because they follow the 3rd and 5th rule. Beatles used alot of that. I think you can use Am pentatonic for that as well, and then for the sharps switch to Cm pentatonic.

i'm pretty sure that's confusing though.
__________________
www.vaticansexparty.com
links136 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
:-D
hi
 
:-D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
#yolo
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
You just won.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaholic97
Thanks! I wish everyone on Ultimate Guitar could be more like you!
:-D is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #12
food1010
Bassist
 
food1010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirdzaid
i guess thats because i know the a minor pentatonic scale well
No, actually it's because A minor pentatonic resolves to A, and so does the chord progression. D minor pentatonic resolves to D and E minor pentatonic resolves to E, so those won't really help solidify the key. Feel free to use those notes if you want, but be wary that they will draw you away from the "home tone" and it will take away some of the strength of the resolution and sound a bit confused.

Of course, if you do it right it could sound incredible.

But then again, this is the case for anything in music.
__________________
Only play what you hear. If you donít hear anything, donít play anything.
-Chick Corea
food1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 11:02 AM   #13
brandon12502
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
To reply to your first question, you find chords in scales by applying the following formula to the normal major scale formula:

Maj, Maj, Min, Min, Maj, Maj, Min, 1/2 diminished.

use this pattern in your major scale that goes with the key you're trying to play in, and that's the chords that fit in.

to reply to your second question, i don't think those chords are in the same key. if they sound good the way you play them, keep it, but there's going to be a key change. as far as the solo, yes, i would swap the minor pentatonics out as the chords are played for the sake of keeping the scale you play in the same key as the chords. or you could also play in the Aeolian (minor) scale that matches the chord. this, in my opinion, gives you MUCH more opportunities and notes to work with.

As far as the A minor, if you're playing in A minor, you can play the chord anywhere on the neck you'd like, it'll stay in the same key. An Am chord is an Am chord, and itll always be made of the same notes, unless you change it.
brandon12502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:07 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.