Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Recordings
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 10-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #21
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Yeah... I'm really sure

A cheap amp will sound worse no matter what. Cheap construction, cheap everything. An amp sim has access to a large amount of processing power to make a good sound.

The only issue with amp sims is the fizz in the upper register and that's FAR easier to fix than making a shit amp sound good.

Nah man, you see, that fizz is like fullband distortion that makes the sound almost unworkable an extremely difficult to EQ.

It doesn't matter how shit the inner components of an amp are...it's pushing real air and making an actual sound. I have a piece of shit Epiphone Valve Jr in the shop...when I get it back next week I'll record a clip for you. I bought that amp for like $80 bucks back in 2006.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 03:08 PM   #22
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
 
ChemicalFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The United Kingdom
Yeah but the Valve Juniors aren't terrible amps... they may be cheap and simple. But they're far from awful.

Most people on this forum when they talk about micing cheap amps are talking about Line 6's and Vox modelling amps. They have the fizz issues even worse than the Amp Sims do.

I honestly wouldn't doubt you could get something good from a Valve Jr. Cuz they sound pretty okay as far as cheap amps go.
__________________
ABSENT SKIES
FFO Counter Parts, Misery Signals


The Site I Write For / My Soundcloud

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangMan311
Proving yet again that you consistently have the worst taste on this forum.

Last edited by ChemicalFire : 10-03-2012 at 03:12 PM.
ChemicalFire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #23
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
its a TERRIBLE amp. And a terrible, cheap amp at that.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #24
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
 
ChemicalFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The United Kingdom
Still better than a Spider IV
__________________
ABSENT SKIES
FFO Counter Parts, Misery Signals


The Site I Write For / My Soundcloud

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangMan311
Proving yet again that you consistently have the worst taste on this forum.
ChemicalFire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #25
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
mos def. my asshole gurgling is better than a spider IV.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 05:20 PM   #26
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Yeah... I'm really sure

A cheap amp will sound worse no matter what. Cheap construction, cheap everything. An amp sim has access to a large amount of processing power to make a good sound.

The only issue with amp sims is the fizz in the upper register and that's FAR easier to fix than making a shit amp sound good.


Yeah and that's not even getting into problems with shitty mics, shitty mic pres, shitty acoustics and shitty mic placement (though that ones is fairly easy to fix with a little practice)
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #27
FireHawk
All Hail Ze Llama!
 
FireHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indiana
I prefer amp sims over real amps and cabs but then again I am in distorted to shit nasty sounding guitars.

I'd still trust an amp sim over a cheap amp if I was looking for a "rock" or "metal" tone. Also people who don't play as well should do amp sims as its easier to fudge their work.
__________________
Satellite 3 <- My rock band profile on UG.
Here is my solo electronic stuff.
UG Keyboard Players Unite!
FireHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:24 AM   #28
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHawk
I prefer amp sims over real amps and cabs but then again I am in distorted to shit nasty sounding guitars.

I'd still trust an amp sim over a cheap amp if I was looking for a "rock" or "metal" tone. Also people who don't play as well should do amp sims as its easier to fudge their work.

Really? What are your favorite bands? Do you think they used amp sims on their records?
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:25 AM   #29
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Thorazine
Yeah and that's not even getting into problems with shitty mics, shitty mic pres, shitty acoustics and shitty mic placement (though that ones is fairly easy to fix with a little practice)


ALl of this is negligible compared to the harshness and terribleness you inflict on yourself with amp sims. If you close mic a cab with a sm57 in the sweet spot on the speaker cone...and do some basic placement of the amp itself in a shitty room you've solved most of your problems. And...even if you did none of those things right it'd still sound better.
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 01:37 AM   #30
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
ALl of this is negligible compared to the harshness and terribleness you inflict on yourself with amp sims. If you close mic a cab with a sm57 in the sweet spot on the speaker cone...and do some basic placement of the amp itself in a shitty room you've solved most of your problems. And...even if you did none of those things right it'd still sound better.



Well first off, that assumes you have an SM-57 or something of similar quality, granted they aren't that expensive, but there are free amp sims out there that are quite serviceable, you haven't heard harshness until you've heard an overdriven guitar recorded with a $30 karaoke microphone. Assuming you have a decent mic, then you have to worry about the amp, as has been pointed out numerous times, even the best possible recording of a shitty amp is still going to sound shitty.

Also, you are vastly underestimating the potential of amp sims, you can get perfectly serviceable tone through some of the better ones, and with the right EQing and effects you can make them sound pretty damn good in a mix.
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 02:31 AM   #31
chatterbox272
Registered User
 
chatterbox272's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
ALl of this is negligible compared to the harshness and terribleness you inflict on yourself with amp sims. If you close mic a cab with a sm57 in the sweet spot on the speaker cone...and do some basic placement of the amp itself in a shitty room you've solved most of your problems. And...even if you did none of those things right it'd still sound better.

I'm terrible with amp sims and I can still get a better sound through an amp sim than the professional recording engineer up the street from me can if I give him a crappy 8" practice amp. Pretty much this is how I reckon it goes: Crappy Amp Sim < Crappy Amp < Good Amp Sim < Good Amp.
chatterbox272 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 02:45 PM   #32
chronowarp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Thorazine
Well first off, that assumes you have an SM-57 or something of similar quality, granted they aren't that expensive, but there are free amp sims out there that are quite serviceable, you haven't heard harshness until you've heard an overdriven guitar recorded with a $30 karaoke microphone. Assuming you have a decent mic, then you have to worry about the amp, as has been pointed out numerous times, even the best possible recording of a shitty amp is still going to sound shitty.

Also, you are vastly underestimating the potential of amp sims, you can get perfectly serviceable tone through some of the better ones, and with the right EQing and effects you can make them sound pretty damn good in a mix.

If you can't shell out 70 bucks for a used sm57...then why the **** are you "recording" in the first place??
__________________
Check out my band Socrates and the Lava Gods
chronowarp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 06:13 PM   #33
Odirunn
Hi, I'm Adam
 
Odirunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Orleans, LA
Bout time for that thread lock-eroo! Continue the real amp vs sims debate in the recording chat thread if you must!
__________________
Let's party.
Odirunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:41 PM   #34
FireHawk
All Hail Ze Llama!
 
FireHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indiana
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronowarp
Really? What are your favorite bands? Do you think they used amp sims on their records?

As most of my favorite bands are from early 90s no.

But NiN is my favorite band and reznor does use processed guitar. The music I have recently been making though isn't really similar to my favorite bands actually and is t guitar centric at all. I just use it for noise and distortion really. Lately I have been taking off cab sims to get fuzzy noise.
__________________
Satellite 3 <- My rock band profile on UG.
Here is my solo electronic stuff.
UG Keyboard Players Unite!
FireHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 07:44 AM   #35
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
 
ChemicalFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The United Kingdom
Lot's of Modern Metal(core) bands use amp sims.

They're really not THAT bad, perfectly usable. But I'll still admit a good mic'd amp is still better.
__________________
ABSENT SKIES
FFO Counter Parts, Misery Signals


The Site I Write For / My Soundcloud

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangMan311
Proving yet again that you consistently have the worst taste on this forum.
ChemicalFire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 08:15 AM   #36
GaryBillington
Grumpier than normal.
 
GaryBillington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Trow Vegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalFire
Lot's of Modern Metal(core) bands use amp sims.

They're really not THAT bad, perfectly usable. But I'll still admit a good mic'd amp is still better.

Good being the operative word. Personally I've never used an amp sim & never intend to, but I'll still admit that a good sim is going to be better than a crap amp.

Now we just need chronowarp to admit that something crap will always be beaten by something good and this thread can quietly fade away into the background.
__________________
.
Gibson LP Studio x2 (Worn Brown Satin & Swamp Ash)
MXR M132 Super Comp > EHX Worm > TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30 210 + GS112VE cab
Jet City JCA22H
GaryBillington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:07 AM   #37
lockwolf
Recording's AdBot/Dick
 
lockwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryBillington
Good being the operative word. Personally I've never used an amp sim & never intend to, but I'll still admit that a good sim is going to be better than a crap amp.


Remember this post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be9o...g&feature=g-u-u

Just saying :p
__________________
Derpy Derp Derp Herp Derp
lockwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:31 AM   #38
GaryBillington
Grumpier than normal.
 
GaryBillington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Trow Vegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockwolf

I think that video needs posting in the Gear & Accessories forum as often as possible. They'll love it over there.
__________________
.
Gibson LP Studio x2 (Worn Brown Satin & Swamp Ash)
MXR M132 Super Comp > EHX Worm > TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30 210 + GS112VE cab
Jet City JCA22H
GaryBillington is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:54 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.