CodeMonk

WOW.
In the US, that is illegal.

And you are actually proud of this line of ******ed bullshit?

So if you go fired from a job that you have had for say, 10 years, because some CEO wanted to hire his nephew, you would have no problem with that?

Go drink some Muratic Acid and rid the rest of the world of your moronic thoughts.


Your mother should have paid full price for her abortion.

You are only into "rights" when it suits your morally bankrupt mentality.

You make me want to fucking vomit.

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Kid_Thorazine

This law wont hold up in court, for the same reason the old abortion laws didn't, it infringes on peoples right to privacy.

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ElisabithaOak

It's the way private business (should) work monk

Or else it's just public business in disguise.

CodeMonk

You can believe whatever the hell you want.

But (and here is what you fail to realize), you can't act on it if it infringes on someone else's rights or well-being.

Its my belief that you should have a rabid wolverine shoved up your ass.
And I can believe that all I want.
But if I act on that belief, then I go to jail.

See how that works.
See the difference between a belief and an action?

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willT08

Where?


Do you disagree with government intervening about pay?


Not at all. You can hire whoever you like as long as your decision isn't founded on bigotry and racism.

That's because it's everybody's right to equal opportunity of employment.

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DisarmGoliath

You are proving exactly why democracy often encounters problems... even idiots are allowed an opinion in a democracy.

If you're so keen on the rights of the employer, how about this: would you be perfectly satisfied with this system, if I were to offer you $100k/pa if you moved with your family to a state on the other side of the US, to work for me... and then after a couple of weeks, before you even receive your first month's wages, immediately fire you with no reason given, leaving you stranded with no job, far from people who can help you and with no income to sustain yourself and your family? And if pushed, my reason was that my religious view (or partial lack-of, as I consider myself agnostic) disagreed with yours?

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Kid_Thorazine

That's why you make sure that if you have to relocate the company offers you a guaranteed relocation package, and preferably an employment contract with severance effective from signing. Really since most places in the U.S. have at will employment, you really can be fired for anything, you can sue if you think it was done for illegal reasons, but you have to actually be able to prove that, or hope they are willing to settle to keep the whole thing quiet.

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Draken

It's still private business it is just subject to regulation and control to protect people, to make sure they aren't taken advantage of by those who have more than them.

But then i come from Europe so to most Americans i'm a morally bankrupt socialist.

ElisabithaOak

I feel a real danger with public business being disguised as private business. It's probably more of a danger to the freedom of the western world-maybe the whole world- now than fascism, seeing as everyone is rightfully scared of that.

Do you at least hear what I'm saying?

I (and probably others) would be more likely to start a business if I thought I had the freedom to do what I wanted, and if I only had 5 people working for me, I'm gunna want to be able to get the best workers I can find and that might mean firing someone on short notice. Now you might say this is different from a huge corp but it's the principal of the matter to. I want to have freedom yadig? I even want racist and bigoted people to have their freedom.

This is only one example of freedom but this government encroaching on private business' freedom makes me teh sads.

What also alarms me is that this is what is the first step of the government controlling people for the sake of 'freedom'.

"You can't do this because it offends or inconviences someone!" This line of thinking doesn't make sense. If it your own business of course you can!

Private economy is going to leave some people out in the cold sometimes.

more shrugs to follow in future replies

willT08

Nope. Believing something doesn't affect anybody else. Practicing your beliefs is fine in most cases because it doesn't affect anybody else. Practicing your beliefs to the point where it infringes on other people's rights is not okay.

EDIT:
Who said this?

We're saying "You can't do this because it's bigoted, and infringes on people's right to equal opportunity of employment".

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DisarmGoliath

Yep, but in that user's eyes the employer wouldn't have to provide that, though not being from the US I have no idea on how these things actually work.


And there's nothing in place that says the employee must have certain disciplinary procedures followed, and outlined in a contract? Wow... I'm glad I live in the UK then.




Edit: I'm done arguing with someone who cannot follow logical debate (to ElisabithaOak), but just wanted to say that my standpoint on anything is far from fascist... I find that quite laughable, in fact Apparently, you simply fail to understand how someone's right to free action and free speech etc. is within reason, based on how it relates to other people's rights/the law.

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Kid_Thorazine

Well they don't have to do that, but you shouldn't take a job with them unless they do.


Some jobs have that, some don't, it's generally not a requirement but for higher paying jobs and jobs in certain fields it's fairly common, for example I work in IT security and all of my contracts have very strict procedures and whatnot, but that's largely because in my case I'm dealing with all sorts of sensitive information and they don't want some manager getting pissy and firing me when I could royally **** them over.

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ElisabithaOak

People will never have the right to equal opportunity of employment. The government can't and shouldn't try to provide this right. Especially when it infringes upon the rights of someone else- The right of employers to practice their beliefs. Be those beliefs even just personal biases.

Shoving gay people down bigoted employers throats isn't going to do anybody any good. It will make the employer resent the homosexual worker in question even more and maybe even make people resent minorities who are getting jobs or keeping jobs by playing the minority card . And it would be a poisonous work environment for everyone- not least of all the minority in this example.

ElisabithaOak

DisarmGoliath

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ElisabithaOak

You said you were done.

DisarmGoliath

Not done reading; just 'done arguing'.

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CodeMonk

Yeah, its like trying to herd cats.

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ElisabithaOak

Yeah me too. This is silly.