Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > UG Community > The Pit
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 10-03-2012, 07:58 AM   #81
CodeMonk
UG's Old Fart
 
CodeMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Masturbating in your armpit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
...
I'm into rights. I really am.
...

[STUFF]

An employer should have the right to fire a homosexual because they are homosexual.

[MORE STUFF]

edited a couple of times. I'm proud of this.



WOW.
In the US, that is illegal.

And you are actually proud of this line of ******ed bullshit?

So if you go fired from a job that you have had for say, 10 years, because some CEO wanted to hire his nephew, you would have no problem with that?

Go drink some Muratic Acid and rid the rest of the world of your moronic thoughts.


Your mother should have paid full price for her abortion.

You are only into "rights" when it suits your morally bankrupt mentality.

You make me want to fucking vomit.
__________________
Programming is an art form that fights back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dementiacaptain
I'm sorry that we won't validate your decision, we give advice here, not good feelings.

My friends call me Rob.
CodeMonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #82
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
This law wont hold up in court, for the same reason the old abortion laws didn't, it infringes on peoples right to privacy.
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:02 AM   #83
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
It's the way private business (should) work monk

Or else it's just public business in disguise.
ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:03 AM   #84
CodeMonk
UG's Old Fart
 
CodeMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Masturbating in your armpit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
^This logic is rediculous.

I disagree with government's intervening with who private business hires and fires.

Is the next step with this sort of thinking that companies are mandated to hire the first person that applies for the job whom (who?) the government deems qualified?

It's nobody right to have a job.

editorite: "affects other people" - so my right to believe something is suspended because it might offend someone who believes something diffrent? So no one is allowed to believe anything or practice their beliefs?

...but sortoff sads



You can believe whatever the hell you want.

But (and here is what you fail to realize), you can't act on it if it infringes on someone else's rights or well-being.

Its my belief that you should have a rabid wolverine shoved up your ass.
And I can believe that all I want.
But if I act on that belief, then I go to jail.

See how that works.
See the difference between a belief and an action?
__________________
Programming is an art form that fights back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dementiacaptain
I'm sorry that we won't validate your decision, we give advice here, not good feelings.

My friends call me Rob.

Last edited by CodeMonk : 10-03-2012 at 08:06 AM.
CodeMonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:04 AM   #85
willT08
Banned
 
willT08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
^This logic is rediculous.

Where?

Quote:
I disagree with government's intervening with who private business hires and fires.

Do you disagree with government intervening about pay?

Quote:
Is the next step with this sort of thinking that companies are mandated to hire the first person that applies for the job whom (who?) the government deems qualified?

It's nobody right to have a job.

Not at all. You can hire whoever you like as long as your decision isn't founded on bigotry and racism.

That's because it's everybody's right to equal opportunity of employment.
willT08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:05 AM   #86
DisarmGoliath
Disarms Goliaths
 
DisarmGoliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
Because this is silly and stupid.

I'm into rights. I really am.

I feel it is the owner of a private company's right to hire and fire who they like. I don't know how else to put it.

*lots of illogical crap*

edited a couple of times. I'm proud of this.

You are proving exactly why democracy often encounters problems... even idiots are allowed an opinion in a democracy.

If you're so keen on the rights of the employer, how about this: would you be perfectly satisfied with this system, if I were to offer you $100k/pa if you moved with your family to a state on the other side of the US, to work for me... and then after a couple of weeks, before you even receive your first month's wages, immediately fire you with no reason given, leaving you stranded with no job, far from people who can help you and with no income to sustain yourself and your family? And if pushed, my reason was that my religious view (or partial lack-of, as I consider myself agnostic) disagreed with yours?
__________________
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
DisarmGoliath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:08 AM   #87
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
You are proving exactly why democracy often encounters problems... even idiots are allowed an opinion in a democracy.

If you're so keen on the rights of the employer, how about this: would you be perfectly satisfied with this system, if I were to offer you $100k/pa if you moved with your family to a state on the other side of the US, to work for me... and then after a couple of weeks, before you even receive your first month's wages, immediately fire you with no reason given, leaving you stranded with no job, far from people who can help you and with no income to sustain yourself and your family? And if pushed, my reason was that my religious view (or partial lack-of, as I consider myself agnostic) disagreed with yours?


That's why you make sure that if you have to relocate the company offers you a guaranteed relocation package, and preferably an employment contract with severance effective from signing. Really since most places in the U.S. have at will employment, you really can be fired for anything, you can sue if you think it was done for illegal reasons, but you have to actually be able to prove that, or hope they are willing to settle to keep the whole thing quiet.
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:14 AM   #88
Draken
waiting for the 6th world
 
Draken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
It's the way private business (should) work monk

Or else it's just public business in disguise.


It's still private business it is just subject to regulation and control to protect people, to make sure they aren't taken advantage of by those who have more than them.

But then i come from Europe so to most Americans i'm a morally bankrupt socialist.
Draken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #89
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
sillyclichedfascist statement*

Good question*



I feel a real danger with public business being disguised as private business. It's probably more of a danger to the freedom of the western world-maybe the whole world- now than fascism, seeing as everyone is rightfully scared of that.

Do you at least hear what I'm saying?

I (and probably others) would be more likely to start a business if I thought I had the freedom to do what I wanted, and if I only had 5 people working for me, I'm gunna want to be able to get the best workers I can find and that might mean firing someone on short notice. Now you might say this is different from a huge corp but it's the principal of the matter to. I want to have freedom yadig? I even want racist and bigoted people to have their freedom.

This is only one example of freedom but this government encroaching on private business' freedom makes me teh sads.

What also alarms me is that this is what is the first step of the government controlling people for the sake of 'freedom'.

"You can't do this because it offends or inconviences someone!" This line of thinking doesn't make sense. If it your own business of course you can!

Private economy is going to leave some people out in the cold sometimes.

more shrugs to follow in future replies

Last edited by ElisabithaOak : 10-03-2012 at 08:20 AM.
ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:17 AM   #90
willT08
Banned
 
willT08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
editorite: "affects other people" - so my right to believe something is suspended because it might offend someone who believes something diffrent? So no one is allowed to believe anything or practice their beliefs?

...but sortoff sads


Nope. Believing something doesn't affect anybody else. Practicing your beliefs is fine in most cases because it doesn't affect anybody else. Practicing your beliefs to the point where it infringes on other people's rights is not okay.

EDIT:
Quote:
"You can't do this because it offends someone!" doesn't make sense

Who said this?

We're saying "You can't do this because it's bigoted, and infringes on people's right to equal opportunity of employment".

Last edited by willT08 : 10-03-2012 at 08:18 AM.
willT08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #91
DisarmGoliath
Disarms Goliaths
 
DisarmGoliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid_Thorazine
That's why you make sure that if you have to relocate the company offers you a guaranteed relocation package, and preferably an employment contract with severance effective from signing.

Yep, but in that user's eyes the employer wouldn't have to provide that, though not being from the US I have no idea on how these things actually work.

Quote:
Really since most places in the U.S. have at will employment, you really can be fired for anything, you can sue if you think it was done for illegal reasons, but you have to actually be able to prove that, or hope they are willing to settle to keep the whole thing quiet.

And there's nothing in place that says the employee must have certain disciplinary procedures followed, and outlined in a contract? Wow... I'm glad I live in the UK then.




Edit: I'm done arguing with someone who cannot follow logical debate (to ElisabithaOak), but just wanted to say that my standpoint on anything is far from fascist... I find that quite laughable, in fact Apparently, you simply fail to understand how someone's right to free action and free speech etc. is within reason, based on how it relates to other people's rights/the law.
__________________
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
DisarmGoliath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:23 AM   #92
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
Yep, but in that user's eyes the employer wouldn't have to provide that, though not being from the US I have no idea on how these things actually work.

Well they don't have to do that, but you shouldn't take a job with them unless they do.
Quote:
And there's nothing in place that says the employee must have certain disciplinary procedures followed, and outlined in a contract? Wow... I'm glad I live in the UK then.


Some jobs have that, some don't, it's generally not a requirement but for higher paying jobs and jobs in certain fields it's fairly common, for example I work in IT security and all of my contracts have very strict procedures and whatnot, but that's largely because in my case I'm dealing with all sorts of sensitive information and they don't want some manager getting pissy and firing me when I could royally **** them over.
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:27 AM   #93
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
People will never have the right to equal opportunity of employment. The government can't and shouldn't try to provide this right. Especially when it infringes upon the rights of someone else- The right of employers to practice their beliefs. Be those beliefs even just personal biases.

Shoving gay people down bigoted employers throats isn't going to do anybody any good. It will make the employer resent the homosexual worker in question even more and maybe even make people resent minorities who are getting jobs or keeping jobs by playing the minority card . And it would be a poisonous work environment for everyone- not least of all the minority in this example.

Last edited by ElisabithaOak : 10-03-2012 at 08:29 AM.
ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:28 AM   #94
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath


ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:29 AM   #95
DisarmGoliath
Disarms Goliaths
 
DisarmGoliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
__________________
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
DisarmGoliath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:30 AM   #96
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
You said you were done.

ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #97
DisarmGoliath
Disarms Goliaths
 
DisarmGoliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Not done reading; just 'done arguing'.
__________________
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
DisarmGoliath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:33 AM   #98
CodeMonk
UG's Old Fart
 
CodeMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Masturbating in your armpit
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisarmGoliath
Not done reading; just 'done arguing'.


Yeah, its like trying to herd cats.
__________________
Programming is an art form that fights back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dementiacaptain
I'm sorry that we won't validate your decision, we give advice here, not good feelings.

My friends call me Rob.
CodeMonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #99
ElisabithaOak
Banned
 
ElisabithaOak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Yeah me too. This is silly.

ElisabithaOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #100
Kid_Thorazine
Registered Sadist
 
Kid_Thorazine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: KY
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElisabithaOak
People will never have the right to equal opportunity of employment. The government can't and shouldn't try to provide this right. Especially when it infringes upon the rights of someone else- The right of employers to practice their beliefs. Be those beliefs even just personal biases.

Shoving gay people down bigoted employers throats isn't going to do anybody any good. It will make the employer resent the homosexual worker in question even more and maybe even make people resent minorities who are getting jobs or keeping jobs by playing the minority card . And it would be a poisonous work environment for everyone- not least of all the minority in this example.


Except people do and the government has been protecting it (governments cannot give rights, they can only protect or deny them) it since 1964 maybe you should take a high school civics class before trying to discuss these things.
__________________
make Industrial and/or experimental electronic music? Join my group!

Last.fm
Kid_Thorazine is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:16 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.