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Old 10-02-2012, 01:39 AM   #1
trashedlostfdup
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potentially warped neck on my Gibson?

well i was doing the guitar its annual service and set everything up to my preferences with. .11-.49" D'addarios. i have the bridge height set per preference, intonated then adjusted the truss to have proper relief.

not to be an ass or anything, but i have personally owned 50 guitars in the last 10 years (obviously not all at a time), and have set up tons of guitars over and over band mates, friends, etc. so i am not totally sure it is a problem i created.

so basically the first fret on the little "e" string buzzes very strongly pretty sounding like an improperly fingered "f". i took out the feeler gauges out of my garage and did some measuring. also i have built over 100 motors, i know how to use a feeler gauge. building $10,000+ race motors and would't gamble with a improper measurement.

not to be sounding cocky (which i am really not at all) i just wanted to explain a little experience with what i have.

here are the numbers (in hundredths and thousands of an inch)

fret 1 bass side .010" treble side fretting out.
fret 2 bass side N/A treble side at .006"
fret 12 bass side.067 treble side .020"
fret 17 bass side 0.081 treble side .024"

i realize this only provides minimal help but is really all i could do. the nut is a little worn, but it wouldn't change just in a set up.

so do you think the neck could be warped? but then it happened after setup.



EDIT should mention it was about one single 1/4 turn. the next day i turned back halfway and it still hasn't changed. and also should state that above inotnoated after the truss rod was set.

thoughts???

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Last edited by trashedlostfdup : 10-02-2012 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:13 AM   #2
W4RP1G
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Does the neck look twisted at all when you look down it?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:21 AM   #3
trashedlostfdup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
Does the neck look twisted at all when you look down it?


i have spent quite a bit of time staring down the neck. lol. it doesn't look twisted at all. and also why is it happening now? versus prior to setup. i am playing tomorrow night and would prefer to bring this guitar, so i would like to get it squared away, but fortunately have backups, but this guitar in discussion here is really my workhorse. i have other very similar guitars i could use so i will be fine but not quite ideal.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:15 AM   #4
W4RP1G
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I'm not sure why the open string is buzzing from just a string change, unless your 1st fret has lifted out of the slot a bit.
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:37 AM   #5
trashedlostfdup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm not sure why the open string is buzzing from just a string change, unless your 1st fret has lifted out of the slot a bit.


didn't think about fret lift. i am looking a little more at the nut (not yet with precision instruments) and it does seem low.

i will do this tomorrow. its 3:30am here. time to sleep.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:06 AM   #6
KenG
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Your approach is flawed. Intonation is the last step you do. String height & neck relief affect intonation.
If you took all the string s off at once and the guitar sat like that for more than couple of minutes, the truss rod would've removed all relief and possible went past that. It happens fairly quickly because yoou've removed string tension.
Then you put your strings but now there are two forces working against one another, strin tension & truss rod. The neck would come back to its original relief provided that 1. the same guage strings were used & tuned to same pitch, 2. you left the truss rod alone for a day or two to setttle back in.
If you haven't changed guages, the nut should be as it was before so fret the 1st & 17th fret of the Low E at the same time (with the guitar in playing position to eliminate string sag) and check the to see if there's any gap between the fret crowns and the bottom of the string in the 7-9th fret area. The gap shouldn't be any thicker than a sstandard business card (not credit card which is ~ 0.030 in thk).
Then you adjust the height of your bridge till you get minimal buzzing then you intonate. A pro with experience may go back and forth between truus rod & bridge height but would likely start with a dead straight neck.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:35 AM   #7
trashedlostfdup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenG
Your approach is flawed. Intonation is the last step you do. String height & neck relief affect intonation.
If you took all the string s off at once and the guitar sat like that for more than couple of minutes, the truss rod would've removed all relief and possible went past that. It happens fairly quickly because yoou've removed string tension.
Then you put your strings but now there are two forces working against one another, strin tension & truss rod. The neck would come back to its original relief provided that 1. the same guage strings were used & tuned to same pitch, 2. you left the truss rod alone for a day or two to setttle back in.
If you haven't changed guages, the nut should be as it was before so fret the 1st & 17th fret of the Low E at the same time (with the guitar in playing position to eliminate string sag) and check the to see if there's any gap between the fret crowns and the bottom of the string in the 7-9th fret area. The gap shouldn't be any thicker than a sstandard business card (not credit card which is ~ 0.030 in thk).
Then you adjust the height of your bridge till you get minimal buzzing then you intonate. A pro with experience may go back and forth between truus rod & bridge height but would likely start with a dead straight neck.


i must have been unclear. the last thing i do is intonation, i was typing rather quickly, thats how i do it and thats how i always have.

i changed one string at a time. 1-6-2-5-3-4 (just how i do it) likelyl doesn't matter.

i stated i did not change guages so its not the nut. i have played with it plenty in small increments, i changed the bridge height higher and it still buzzes. the first fret when fretted (f) has no buzz. nowhere up the neck has any, not any other fret on the whole guitar. i adjust for preference, i like the bass side of my strings higher, i could set it lower, but for that guitars use, it is how i like it.

the only reason i was questioning its straightness was due to the buzz on one string. i have done some more reading and i am going to go back at it. and run measurements again.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:58 AM   #8
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so i picked it up a few minutes ago and gave it a lookover, then i something i missed before. there is a small chip in the nut for the little e. looks like i need a new nut.

what does a good luthier cost to get a neck filed? or are there ones that come standard from gibson that would be close enough to work. damn corian.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:19 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
so i picked it up a few minutes ago and gave it a lookover, then i something i missed before. there is a small chip in the nut for the little e. looks like i need a new nut.

what does a good luthier cost to get a neck filed? or are there ones that come standard from gibson that would be close enough to work. damn corian.

I have no idea how much a luthier charges, but you could probably make due with a precut nut. However, it will probably play and feel better with a nut cut specifically for your guitar.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I have no idea how much a luthier charges, but you could probably make due with a precut nut. However, it will probably play and feel better with a nut cut specifically for your guitar.


yea. i am sure there are tons of precuts out there, do you know any specific company in mind? would graphtech have one (and if so would it be good enough)?
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:03 PM   #11
KenG
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I would spend the (approx) $70 to get a nut professionally done if you don't have the specialty tools and skills. This way the height at the 1st fret can be optimized and the set back from the fret board edge for the Hi & Lo E done correctly as well.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #12
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I don't know what prices are everywhere, but I only pay 20 bucks for a bone nut filed for my guitar. I'm sure thats on the low side, but 70 seems pretty high.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Saale
I don't know what prices are everywhere, but I only pay 20 bucks for a bone nut filed for my guitar. I'm sure thats on the low side, but 70 seems pretty high.

This. A bone nut is only $10 on stewmac, so that means the luthier is charging $60 for something that probably only takes him 45 minutes or less. Plus I doubt his bone nuts cost that much.

And I've come to realize that there is definitely some sort of psychology behind the luthier/customer relationship. Everytime I've told someone that they overpayed for something minor, I've been met with denial and sometimes even hostility. It's like when someone hands their guitar to a luthier they are somehow forever bonded, sort of like a virgin and her first lay.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #14
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Exactly, think he said he pays 2 bucks or so for a blank. He didn't sand the sides of the nut totally flush to the neck, but thats truly minor. He was nice enough to adjust the height to my preference, purposely starting high then working it down over a couple visits. I definitely feel like I got my 20 bucks worth.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:17 AM   #15
trashedlostfdup
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i will get a bone nut cut. thanks for the info about the stew mac. i actually visited a relocated store today (nicer and in a better market now) they opened last week. i was talking to a few guys i really trust at some of the open mics and some people i gig with here and there, and all have said he is a very talented good honest luthier. i will take it over to him and see what he says.
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