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Old 10-06-2012, 11:03 PM   #21
AcousticMirror
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markisawesome
Well now I really wonder about the future of amps. I know that for now, absolute tone at exceptionally high volumes is best left to tube amps. I understand that SS amps don't move air like tubes do. BUT I do believe that such volumes don't necessarily need to be achieved by the amp itself, but rather a series of exterior speakers that i've rigged onto it. I make it sound pretty damn rad, but I can't say I have the patience enough to deal with a totally plain amp. No matter how 'good' it may sound over a modeling amp.


bro you don't really know anything?

plus aren't you talking about the spider valve? that's a tube power section...
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:36 PM   #22
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TS, you got a flawed picture of the differences between tube and SS amps. Do some research, a 5 minute google search should provide all the answers you need, or just search this forums, it's been discussed many times.
I'll tell you one thing tho. And this is the best advice you'll get in this thread. DON'T TRUST STORE CLERKS! Don't do it, man! It they smell you and catch a scent of cash, they'll tell you Mesas are the only way to go! Other times, they'll try to sell you whatever their boss wants them to push. Today, it might be Marshalls, tomorrow it will be Line 6s or Peavys. They have mediocre experience in music AT BEST, no matter how convincing they might be saying otherwise, and don't have your best interest in mind, so don't listen to what they say!
When I was buying my Gibson LP, all the stores in my town that didn't have Gibson in stock were trying to sell me their crap, ranging from Tokai (trow some Alincos and you got a Gibson, man!), to some German shit I never heard of (it's cheaper, has double binding, and is overall much better than Gibson!), ALL OF THEM swearing by their brands, all of them swearing on their mother's lives Gibson is not what it used to be. Go figure.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandorum
TS, you got a flawed picture of the differences between tube and SS amps. Do some research, a 5 minute google search should provide all the answers you need, or just search this forums, it's been discussed many times.
I'll tell you one thing tho. And this is the best advice you'll get in this thread. DON'T TRUST STORE CLERKS! Don't do it, man! It they smell you and catch a scent of cash, they'll tell you Mesas are the only way to go! Other times, they'll try to sell you whatever their boss wants them to push. Today, it might be Marshalls, tomorrow it will be Line 6s or Peavys. They have mediocre experience in music AT BEST, no matter how convincing they might be saying otherwise, and don't have your best interest in mind, so don't listen to what they say!
When I was buying my Gibson LP, all the stores in my town that didn't have Gibson in stock were trying to sell me their crap, ranging from Tokai (trow some Alincos and you got a Gibson, man!), to some German shit I never heard of (it's cheaper, has double binding, and is overall much better than Gibson!), ALL OF THEM swearing by their brands, all of them swearing on their mother's lives Gibson is not what it used to be. Go figure.


I'd argue Tokai is a pretty solid brand and most Gibsons aren't really great value for the money. Your point still stands though.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Saale
I'd argue Tokai is a pretty solid brand and most Gibsons aren't really great value for the money. Your point still stands though.


+1 (certainly the japanese tokais, which should have alnico pickups anyway)

but yeah, don't trust sales assistants, that point is 100% accurate and worth pointing out over and over again.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:17 PM   #25
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There are certain things that you cannot achieve with modelling software.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:03 PM   #26
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Here's my two cents for what it's worth.

Buy the amp that you like and sounds good to you for what you intend to use it for. Take your guitar and your ears down to the store and buy what you can afford and what sounds like it will do the job for you. Today price doesn't necessarily seem to have anything to do with cost or size as there it a lot of money going into labels and there seems to as much about following fashion than anything else to it too. Then again I've never been much of a fashion hound nor a slave to style.

If it's for home or professional use and it has the features you want and it sounds good to you, then buy it and to hell with what anyone else says. The bottom line is, you have to pay for it and live with it and they don't.

I am a retired EE that started life with and cut my teeth on tubes. Quite frankly however, I'd much rather have a good SS amp with digital modeling. The reason why is simply because you are not likely to get anything made with tubes (an obsolete technology) that does not introduce distortion. Plus with modeling I can get have all the effects I want for a dime on the dollar and have it all in one nice tidy package with one well organized foot controller instead a bunch of little overpriced boxes interconnected with a mass of failure prone wiring that looks for all the world like a plate of spaghetti.

Achieving low levels of distortion is a lot easier with modern solid state designs particularly those that use power FETs in the final. While I am quite aware that distortion is a sought after effect for some, you can add as much or as little distortion in any flavor that you want with a DSP (digital signal processor) front end.

To me you should want something that you start out with that is clean and distortion free then add in the distortion and or effects that what you want. That you can easily do with a good solid state amp but not with tubes. With tubes you will have a certain amount of distortion that you can not do anything about as soon as you start cranking the amp and it will vary the more or less you crank it.

As far as the final sound goes, the speakers and speaker enclosure will have a greater effect on the final sound than the electronics will whether it be tube or solid state that is unless the amp is simply pure junk.

To my mind the perfect amp is a Line 6 Vetta because it has all of the things I want lots of clean power and lots of effects at the puch of a few buttons but that's me and my ears.
However be advised that as good as the Vetta is, it is no longer made so I don't recommend that anyone buy one unless you have the equipment and know how to repair it to the component level yourself. In fact, Line 6 seems to have chucked the whole idea of solid state amps due to ignorance and hip boot levels of bullshit in the market place. At the end of the day they are in business to sell stuff and if no one buys it for whatever reason then they'd be out of business pretty quick if they didn't change and build what people think they want. Good, bad or indifferent it is what it is

Line 6 no longer supports the Vetta and PC boards are no longer available for it. Also their so called official repair shops are little more than PC board and tube swappers who know about as much about troubleshooting electronics to the component level as my pet schnauzer. Therefore if it dies, you're likely to be stuck with an expensive boat anchor. At least it's heavy enough to anchor a small boat. Since I have the test equipment and have manged to find the schematics for it (in spite of Line 6), I'm happy with mine for now.

As far as modeling goes, you need to be aware that most of the factory models that most companies ship with their products are far from optimal for most folks so you have to be ready and able to do some diddling and programming on your own to get the sound you seek. I suppose you can caulk this up to simple objectivity. What may sound cool to some, sounds like pure crap to the next guy. Most of the factory models in that came in my Vetta sound like crap to me but I can change them and am not stuck with what they sound like.

The whole idea with modeling is that the sound you want is in there somewhere, you just have to go dig it out but at least you don't have to pay anymore for it like you do with the billion little boxes approach. i.e. it's just software not hardware. And this is coming from a long time hardware engineer.

I don't know who makes an equivalent to the Vetta now but if it were me, that's what I'd be looking for. Maybe a Line6 Pod or a Roland or something hooked up to a nice solid state amp that has lots of good clean power output into some nice instrument grade speakers that aren't apt to melt into a puddle when the amp puts the juice to them.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:25 PM   #27
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I'm glad this is a somewhat necrobump so I don't even have to get into this.

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Old 11-11-2012, 07:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Offworld92
I'm glad this is a somewhat necrobump so I don't even have to get into this.


oh ya, one month is sooooo long ago.


bet people would complain if he the bumper would've made a new thread with the same topic though
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:02 PM   #29
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At the rate that threads are created in this forum, a month old is really, really buried.

Anyway, I said "somewhat" necrobump. I realize it's only a month old. But the bumper didn't reply directly to anyone and he's not the TS, he just seemed to drag it up from somewhere and add a completely new post to it.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:58 PM   #30
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Personally, I enjoy both tube and digital options.

I practice through headphones and little modeling devices all the time- Korg Pandoras, a Tascam GT-R1, etc.- but my amp is a Fender HRD with a carpet of pedals in front of it.

While I like my modelers, they simply don't deliver the same sounds as do my pedals.

However, at some point, I absolutely WILL have some version of DigiTech's iPB-10 and whatever modeling apps are available for it. (And the ReacTable app for my iPad as well...)

At this point, I do not envision myself recording anything with my current or contemplated future digital options (besides the ReacTable app)...but I find it nearly as hard to contemplate lugging all my pedals around to a gig or on a tour.

...neither of which I do, but I could easily envision someone making the same mental calculation.
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