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Old 10-10-2012, 01:46 AM   #41
Captaincranky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHB
This whole thread is just people with no experience disagreeing with people who have experience.
But the fact, is both sides are taking the time, and making a concerted, robust effort to disagree, and that's healthy, even collegial, right....? Perhaps even meritoriously worthy of removing one's subscription to the thread.... But, don't get your hopes up.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:55 AM   #42
ccannon1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz_rock_feel
Also note: the TS hasn't responded at all to his thread.


It's pretty hard to think of an actual response to this thread. What I'm taking from it is that staying out of school and networking is more valuable than a degree.

But has anyone moved from their home town to a bigger city with more opportunity in music? I'm planning on moving to Montreal because there is generally more opportunity for musicians but the fact that I'll be new in the city and know absolutely nobody would make even beginning to network difficult. So wouldn't attending Uni make networking much easier?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:34 AM   #43
axemanchris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
marching band


Canada isn't that up on marching bands. However, we do do things like:
-junior band
-senior band
-junior choir
-senior choir
-jazz band
-pop choir/glee club
-stage band
-stage choir
-mentoring student-formed rock bands, etc.

Plus things like wind emsembles and such that you mentioned.

.... all subject to student and teacher interest, of course. Nobody tells you what you have to do. Extra-curricular activities are widely acknowledged as being voluntary. Some teachers try to do as much as possible and then some. Other teachers try to do as little as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
other than the period for concerts and competitions, there was basically nothing to do outside of the classroom other than instrument rentals which were handled early and late in the school year because they were yearly


The period for concerts and competitions goes all year long! Figure Christmas concerts, spring concerts, feeder school visits, music festivals (ie. Kiwanis Music Festival, etc.), graduation.....

Don't forget:
-repairing instruments (you can save a bundle from your budget if you can do minor repairs yourself!)
-planning lessons and preparing materials
-marking
-re-writing simplified parts for people who can't quite handle the ones printed on the scores.
-ordering supplies (reeds, sterisol, the mouthpiece puller that got lost)
-writing report cards
-contacting parents
-learning new scores to keep your program fresh and interesting
-applying for festivals, etc.
-student supervision (yard duty/lunch duty)
-fundraising for extra money for the program
-organizing things like talent shows, christmas concerts, spring concerts, etc.

.... not to mention all of the extra-curricular stuff as above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
he also only had to manage beginner (6th grade) classes, a 2nd band, and a 1st band, as well as a jazz band that met once every two weeks, as opposed to 5 bands. plus, we're talking 100-200 kids as opposed to 300 "young adults".


Who taught grade seven and eight? Around here, middle school is basically gr. 6-8. Around here, whether middle school or high school, a teacher would teach the same number of students. The difference is that, in middle school, you teach every student, whether they want to be there or not. In high school, you teach students from maybe four other feeder schools, but only the ones who chose music as their requisite arts credit - over art and drama.

I'd rather teach 300 "young adults" who have chosen to be there than 300 grade 6, 7, 8 students who routinely tell you as much, "Who cares? It's only music."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
i don't see how you could compare high school and middle school education


I suppose I just did.

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Last edited by axemanchris : 10-10-2012 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #44
jazz_rock_feel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccannon1
It's pretty hard to think of an actual response to this thread. What I'm taking from it is that staying out of school and networking is more valuable than a degree.

But has anyone moved from their home town to a bigger city with more opportunity in music? I'm planning on moving to Montreal because there is generally more opportunity for musicians but the fact that I'll be new in the city and know absolutely nobody would make even beginning to network difficult. So wouldn't attending Uni make networking much easier?

Yeah, that's the idea. That's what I've been trying to say, the most important factor of university is being able to network with the right people. That's why I'll have to move after my bachelor's and possible get into a graduate program, because my university is really too small to be of any use to me networking-wise. Don't think of University as a big gaping money pit (which it is) or a place to hone your skills with some of the best in their field (which it is), but as a big pool of possible contacts that you're with every single day with professors and teachers that most likely already have their own pool of contacts they could potentially put you in contact with. That kind of opportunity is pretty hard to find elsewhere.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:07 PM   #45
Hail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanchris
Canada isn't that up on marching bands. However, we do do things like:
-junior band
-senior band
-junior choir
-senior choir
-jazz band
-pop choir/glee club
-stage band
-stage choir
-mentoring student-formed rock bands, etc.

Plus things like wind emsembles and such that you mentioned.

.... all subject to student and teacher interest, of course. Nobody tells you what you have to do. Extra-curricular activities are widely acknowledged as being voluntary. Some teachers try to do as much as possible and then some. Other teachers try to do as little as possible.

i live in texas marching band is quite a big deal

plus choir is always ran by a completely different teacher, as well as a separate teacher for strings. our 1st and 2nd bands covered everything else but student-formed rock bands (we don't even have more than 2 or 3 of those in any of our three high schools combined) and jazz band (which he did surprisingly successfully for one rehearsal per 2 weeks)



Quote:
The period for concerts and competitions goes all year long! Figure Christmas concerts, spring concerts, feeder school visits, music festivals (ie. Kiwanis Music Festival, etc.), graduation.....

one christmas show, one end-of-year show, one solo/ensemble competition, one whole-band competition. a couple of kids would go to elementary schools once a year to help him pitch to the elementary schools, but that's basically all any school around here's ever done. it's just the way of things here. maybe it's low budgeting, maybe it's people not really wanting to bother people with 12 year olds playing horns.

Quote:
Don't forget:
-repairing instruments (you can save a bundle from your budget if you can do minor repairs yourself!)
-planning lessons and preparing materials
-marking
-re-writing simplified parts for people who can't quite handle the ones printed on the scores.
-ordering supplies (reeds, sterisol, the mouthpiece puller that got lost)
-writing report cards
-contacting parents
-learning new scores to keep your program fresh and interesting
-applying for festivals, etc.
-student supervision (yard duty/lunch duty)
-fundraising for extra money for the program
-organizing things like talent shows, christmas concerts, spring concerts, etc.

.... not to mention all of the extra-curricular stuff as above.


he had all of those covered and was out by 5 as far as i know his off period was the last class so all of that got handled then. plus, he had 2 student helpers that pulled and organized the file-cabinets full of scores.

maybe he just didn't perform as much as i thought he did, but i recall at least 1-2 shows most weeks outside of the month with competitions.

but this is an overpreparer - he'd sit on 4 pieces of music for months, in addition to our individual studies/etudes/etc. and somehow i remember it always being interesting. it was a very simple curriculum outside of the 6th grade courses, which were basically just learning music through workbooks, rhythm sheets, lessons on instrument repair, learning sheet music, scales, arpeggios.


Quote:
Who taught grade seven and eight? Around here, middle school is basically gr. 6-8. Around here, whether middle school or high school, a teacher would teach the same number of students. The difference is that, in middle school, you teach every student, whether they want to be there or not. In high school, you teach students from maybe four other feeder schools, but only the ones who chose music as their requisite arts credit - over art and drama.

I'd rather teach 300 "young adults" who have chosen to be there than 300 grade 6, 7, 8 students who routinely tell you as much, "Who cares? It's only music.


i don't know about you, but high schoolers are the ones who always skipped out on shows. it's a lot easier to motivate kids - hell, i quit high school band after the first year because it was boring, repetitive, and oversimplified, plus a lot more physically laborous for a skinny 14 year old.

but this goes back to the marching band thing - if you're not focused on that, we have completely different views on high school music programs. with marching programs, the head director had to control essentially 5 bands at once, each much larger than anything a middle school director would have to deal with, i'd imagine.

if you take marching out of the equation, i'm very inclined to agree that a teacher should have a lot more time on his hands. again, this is a person that pounded in the fundamentals and regularly had us practicing - he graded us mostly on practice hours, attendance, and performance in the context of the group once basic scale and sightreading abilities were out of the way.

it was my fault for bringing band into it in the first place, though, since TS obviously plays guitar or something which is a completely different context.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #46
Xiaoxi
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When you want to be a musician full time, you're basically committing yourself to becoming your own business. This should answer your question about whether or not a music degree will be helpful in finding jobs.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:48 PM   #47
CryogenicHusk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
When you want to be a musician full time, you're basically committing yourself to becoming your own business. This should answer your question about whether or not a music degree will be helpful in finding jobs.


So maybe something like an MBA (if you already have a Bachelor's) is a more secure option? I got into school for an MBA but I frankly don't think myself a business-type person so I postponed it for a year to see what other programs (would prefer something that interests me more and is also more affordable... MBA's are not the cheapest degrees) and schools I can get into.
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