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Old 10-07-2012, 04:04 PM   #21
FenrirFangs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockGuitarist09
The laney VH would be brilliant for what you've listed. I would also consider the Marshall JVM410H.


Freaking this. Really anything Laney. The GH, VH, or Ironheart would suit you very well.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:13 PM   #22
I K0nijn I
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
not sure whether orange made greenback cabs or not.

what's the impedance of the cabs?


Well, my 212 is 8 ohms and I suppose every 412 Greenback cab is the same, which would make that one 8 ohms as well.

So it would be a Rockerverb 100, with a 212 V30 8 ohm cab and a 412 greenback (G12M, right?) 8 ohm cab.

@FenrirFangs: Is the Laney VH worth 1200 euros? I mean, for 300 more, I'd have a Rockerverb AND a cab.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:21 PM   #23
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you can't assume that with the greenback cab, the GB cab could just as easily be 16 ohms.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #24
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Save up for the Splawn if you want a Splawn. Otherwise you're just going to end up in the same situation you are now sooner or later.

I also say give a Mesa Roadster a chance, as well as a Marshall JVM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:34 PM   #25
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Ok, didn't know about that one. =P I'll ask the seller.
If the cabs have different ohms, can I still use both at once in one way or another?
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #26
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it's much harder

generally speaking, ideally you want them to be the same. if you have two 16 ohm cabs, you either link them or plug them into the two speaker outputs on the amp at 8 ohms- sorted. (or two 8 ohm cabs would be plugged into the 4 ohm outputs)

if they're different, it gets more complicated. I'm not that well up on this, so bear with me, but if your 2x12 is 8 ohms and the 4x12 were 16 ohms, if you linked those two, you'd have overall impedance of

1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2 (think back to physics class for parallel resistances, impedance is basically resistance to alternating current)

1/R = 1/16 + 1/8

1/R = 3/16

R = 16/3 = 5.33333333 ohms. Which obviously doesn't tally up with any impedance tap on your output transformer, lol.

Now (DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS, IF YOU DO DO IT, DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK) you might be absolutely fine plugging into the 4 ohm (or even 8 ohm) output on your amp- it might be "close enough", and some mismatches are safer than others (I forget which ), but if you don't know what you're doing, it's safer to match.

the other problem with mismatching is that different power goes to different impedances. I *think* (again, don't quote me) double the power will go to the 8 ohm impedance cabinet compared to the 16 ohm (as there's more resistance there), so ~67 watts will be going to your 2x12 (with v30s) while ~33 watts will be going to the 4x12 (with greenbacks). That should be safe in terms of the overall wattage handling, but v30s are already a bit louder than greenbacks, and more power going to them will make them louder again- they could overpower the greenbacks. (Conversely, if you have different speakers which are louder, doing a mismatch like that can be used to level out the volumes- if you were sending 33 watts to the v30s and 67 watts to the greenbacks, that might actually sound perfectly balanced.)

Not to mention, 2 of the same speaker combined with 4 of the same speaker might not sound ideal anyway. Even if you have the same impedance on the cabs, you have two v30s and 4 greenbacks (but that might be more helpful from the volume point of view of evening them out).

Regarding v30s combined with greenbacks- I thought it sounded pretty good (that's a 2x12 with one of each at the same impedance- the way you're "meant" to run them, in other words ), but was pretty warm and could get honky with a too middy amp.

of any of the guys who know more about electronics than i do come in here and disagree with what i've written- listen to them. I only have a shaky-at-best knowledge of electronics.
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Last edited by Dave_Mc : 10-07-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #27
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I know pretty much nothing about electronics myself. I guess it's not as easy as just plugging in the 8 ohm cab in an 8 ohm speaker out and the 16 ohm cab in the 16 ohm out? =P

Other than that, I get the main idea of what you say, but my little knowledge of electronics combined with my good-enough-for-daily-stuff English makes it kind of impossible to get the gist of it. =P

Thanks for the elaborate answer, though. I appreciate it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #28
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Yeah, the big problem with mismatching impedances on the speakers is that the speakers don't get the same amount of current.

As far as the quickrod goes, awesome amp. Great overdrive, its less modern sounding than the nitro from what I understand, but it is still plenty tight enough and plenty of gain for anything. Not that great of a clean channel, but its passable.

Edit: ^No, you can't use different taps like that. I forgot how all the math and everything works out, but if you do that the amp ends up seeing no where near the impedance its expecting.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by I K0nijn I
(a) I know pretty much nothing about electronics myself. I guess it's not as easy as just plugging in the 8 ohm cab in an 8 ohm speaker out and the 16 ohm cab in the 16 ohm out? =P

(b) Other than that, I get the main idea of what you say, but my little knowledge of electronics combined with my good-enough-for-daily-stuff English makes it kind of impossible to get the gist of it. =P

(c) Thanks for the elaborate answer, though. I appreciate it.


(a) no that's definitely not what you want to do. you want to be plugged into the same impedance sockets at all times. Like kevin, i can't exactly remember what happens when you plug into different impedance sockets, but I think you want to avoid doing it

(b) your english is awesome if my dutch (or even the french or german which i've sorta half learned) were half as good as your english i'd consider myself a total badass

(c) no problem
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:05 PM   #30
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I'd get the Rockerverb but it's because I love Orange. The Splawn is an amazing amp too. Try them and choose.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:11 PM   #31
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Ok, I'll make sure I don't do that, then. :P
Either way, if 8 and 8 combined are 4, there's a problem anyway, I think, as the RockerVerb doesn't have a 4 ohm speaker out. Right?

Which leads me to the following question: is there any way to change ohms of a cab? For instance, if the 412 is 16 ohms, can I in any way convert my 212 to 16 ohms as well, so I can use both? If it matters: it runs at 16 ohms in stereo, 8 ohms mono.

Thank you Kevin for the input on the Quick Rod. I have no experience with its cleans, with what could they be compared?
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:13 PM   #32
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It been a while since I played the quickrod, I just remember not liking the cleans. Sorry
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #33
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No problem. :-) Thank you anyway.

I'm pretty sure about the RK100 (why the hell is it RK and not RV, by the way? xD) though. I really liked it when I played it and have always liked Orange amplifiers.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:37 PM   #34
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You can change the wiring of the speakers, it will yield in a different "ohmage".

For example:

1x8ohm + 1x8ohm in parallel = 4ohms.
1x8ohm + 1x8ohm in series = 16ohms.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #35
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And would that be a lot of work? I know someone who might be able to do it, but I don't want to ask too much.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:52 PM   #36
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Rewiring cabs is super easy. You could probably do it yourself. Open the cabs up and tell us how many ohms the speakers in them are.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:57 PM   #37
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As far as being handy goes, I can use a screwdriver and a hammer and that's it. xD
I'll open up cabs and ask questions when I need to. :-) I have to sell my Mesa first, of course, LOL.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:14 PM   #38
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(a) Ok, I'll make sure I don't do that, then. :P
Either way, if 8 and 8 combined are 4, there's a problem anyway, I think, as the RockerVerb doesn't have a 4 ohm speaker out. Right?

(b) Which leads me to the following question: is there any way to change ohms of a cab? For instance, if the 412 is 16 ohms, can I in any way convert my 212 to 16 ohms as well, so I can use both? If it matters: it runs at 16 ohms in stereo, 8 ohms mono.


(a) yeah that's a good point. I just assumed it'd have a 4 ohm output as well, as most heads do. That sucks. You don't often need the 4 ohm tap- except for occasions like here where you're trying to link to two 8 ohm cabs.

(b) it's very dependent on what impedance the speakers are. Theoretically, a 4x12 can either be wired in series, in parallel, or in series/parallel (or parallel/series). The problem is, to get an overall impedance which is of any use (i.e. either 4, 8 or 16 ohms) is, as i said, dependent on the impedance of the speakers.

with 16 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 64 ohms- no good.
all in parallel gives you 4 ohms- ok.
series/parallel gives you 16 ohms- also ok.

with 8 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 32 ohms- no good.
all in parallel gives you 2 ohms- no good.
series/parallel gives you 8 ohms- also ok.

with 4 ohm speakers, all wired in series gives you 16 ohms- ok.
all in parallel gives you 1 ohm- no good.
series/parallel gives you 4 ohms- also ok.

(I think those numbers are right, but don't quote me )

That's before you consider that series/parallel (or parallel) wiring is the safest (or at least safer than series), because it means that if a speaker blows there's still some load attached to the output transformer so it shouldn't blow. So while series wiring might afford you the impedance you want, it's not really quite as safe if a speaker should blow. That being said some of my 2x12s have series wiring, and if that's the impedance you need, i'm not sure how much it's worth worrying about.

I don't think it's possible to convert your 2x12 to 16 ohms as 16 ohm stereo/8 ohm mono would suggest the speakers are 16 ohms overall.

You can get impedance matcher gadgets, though- i haven't tried them, so i have no idea what they're like. But tubetown in germany does one, as does weber. They're not that cheap, though.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:05 PM   #39
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Well, as far as having a load connected, I don't think I'd need to worry about blowing 6 speakers at once (which is my plan IF I can match up the impedances), right?

I get what you're saying, though, it just isn't as logical to me as I'd wish.

If the impedances don't match up, I might as well just use one cab and buy a cab that I can match it with later on. :P
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:06 PM   #40
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Well the point dave was making was that if you had one cab and it was wired in series then 1 speaker blowing would make it where there was no load on the amp.
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