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View Poll Results: Your opinion?
I live in the EU and think the Euro will survive. 13 12.62%
I live outside the EU and think the Euro will survive. 7 6.80%
I live in the EU and think the Euro will survive but some countries will leave. 15 14.56%
I live outside the EU and think the Euro will survive but some countries will leave. 14 13.59%
I live in the EU and don't give a shit. 3 2.91%
I live outside the EU and don't give a shit. 14 13.59%
I'm Welsh and sell sheep for sex so no matter what happens, I'll always have a market. 5 4.85%
I think the worst is still to come. 15 14.56%
I fap to Romney. 2 1.94%
I find it difficult to fap to Romney, but still do. 15 14.56%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2012, 08:53 AM   #61
CoreysMonster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
The Euro caused inflation? We have had lower yearly inflation than ever man. And wages did go up. Even though it's a recession we're back at mid 2000 levels qua GDP. It's not that bad.

The Euro was perfect for the Northern countries as it created a system where we benefit from the fact that SOuthern countries have a terrible economy. They don't export -> they import. So they have an import surplus, while we want to have a giant export surplus (so we can get rich). If we (netherlands this time) had our own currency, we would have exported less, as our coin would have risen too much (especially comparable to the DM). Same, but maybe in lesser ways, Germany benefited a lot from it.

Well that may work on paper and for a percentage of the people, but in my day-to-day life here things have gotten consistantly more expensive, and I have never heard of anybody's wages getting adjusted to newer values after the initial switch to Euros. My dad's wages sure haven't gone up in the past 13 years; I've been working since the mid-2000's, and all the low-entry jobs are all still paid exactly the same - and taxes and prices have definitely gone up a LOT.

Last edited by CoreysMonster : 10-07-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #62
Neo Evil11
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Originally Posted by CoreysMonster
Well that may work on paper and for a percentage of the people, but in my day-to-day life here things have gotten consistantly more expensive, and I have never heard of anybody's wages getting adjusted to newer values after the initial switch to Euros. My dad's wages sure haven't gone up in the past 13 years; I've been working since the mid-2000's, and all the low-entry jobs are all still paid exactly the same - and taxes and prices have definitely gone up a LOT.


I don't know where you or your father work, but here in the Netherlands wages go up every year, usually with at least the inflation rate (which has been 2% for the entire EU). My father's wage goes up much more every year, where my mother as a teacher usually just gets the baseline extra.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:28 AM   #63
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woooooo! go ireland!
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:38 AM   #64
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Some countries will inevitably have to drop out. But I think Germany, France and others are very sincere in their hopes to keep together at least some form of Eurozone.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:54 AM   #65
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Some countries will inevitably have to drop out. But I think Germany, France and others are very sincere in their hopes to keep together at least some form of Eurozone.

If any state leaves, half the region becomes unstable. The way i see it there are two options: completely save greece thereby taking away all doubt, but create a moral hazard and have some regions which may never catch up. So more has to bs done to ensure long run growth.

Or quit with the euro and bring the entire world in a depression.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:58 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
don't know about Portugal.

We're as bad as it can get, honestly. It may sound differently to you in other countries, maybe you may be watching in the news that Portugal is acting correctly and fixing the economical mess, but the truth is that life is harder each day for people here. Cuts in salaries, more and more taxes, prices rising stupidly and not a single cut in the state expense. People are reaching the threshold, many families do not spend a dime in something other than food and house rent. I seriously don't know how the hell are we gonna recover, we'll be paying our debts for decades, if we can pay them at all.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:59 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
If any state leaves, half the region becomes unstable. The way i see it there are two options: completely save greece thereby taking away all doubt, but create a moral hazard and have some regions which may never catch up. So more has to bs done to ensure long run growth.

Or quit with the euro and bring the entire world in a depression.

You're the economics major man. But I think it'd be really fricking hard for Merkel and Hollande to justify completely bailing Greece to their people.

Shit's gonna be interesting over the next year or so.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:05 AM   #68
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You're the economics major man. But I think it'd be really fricking hard for Merkel and Hollande to justify completely bailing Greece to their people.

Shit's gonna be interesting over the next year or so.

They should have bailed out greece years ago. If greece leaves, italian and spanish interest rates would skyrocket even more. The euro would also not be trusted. Panick, panick will ensue.

It is a political problem and it has been. The way it is going, the eurozone cant survive.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by little_boy
We're as bad as it can get, honestly. It may sound differently to you in other countries, maybe you may be watching in the news that Portugal is acting correctly and fixing the economical mess, but the truth is that life is harder each day for people here. Cuts in salaries, more and more taxes, prices rising stupidly and not a single cut in the state expense. People are reaching the threshold, many families do not spend a dime in something other than food and house rent. I seriously don't know how the hell are we gonna recover, we'll be paying our debts for decades, if we can pay them at all.

It is good that the wages are dropping. They were too high compared to the productivity. The question now is: Why would the prices rise? With dropping wages and dropping demand.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:26 AM   #70
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It is good that the wages are dropping. They were too high compared to the productivity. The question now is: Why would the prices rise? With dropping wages and dropping demand.

Mainly because of taxes. I'll give you an example: this week, the government announced that the incomes from taxes this year has been lower than expected, because people lost purchasing power and have been buying less, obviously. So what did the government do? An average increase of 30% in taxes. I honestly don't know what they expect to accomplish with that, since people will have even less money and wil consume even less.

Also everything is expensive here. Our average salary is smaller than in most countries in the EU, but most products are cheaper in other countries. For instance, cars and gas. A car that costs in Spain around 27k, here the same car costs around 38k/40k. The difference is all taxes. Same with gas. We have very few gas stations near the border with Spain, because everyone that lives near the border goes to Spain to buy gas. Diesel is around 20 cents/litre cheaper in Spain.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:29 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by little_boy
Mainly because of taxes. I'll give you an example: this week, the government announced that the incomes from taxes this year has been lower than expected, because people lost purchasing power and have been buying less, obviously. So what did the government do? An average increase of 30% in taxes. I honestly don't know what they expect to accomplish with that, since people will have even less money and wil consume even less.

Also everything is expensive here. Our average salary is smaller than in most countries in the EU, but most products are cheaper in other countries. For instance, cars and gas. A car that costs in Spain around 27k, here the same car costs around 38k/40k. The difference is all taxes. Same with gas. We have very few gas stations near the border with Spain, because everyone that lives near the border goes to Spain to buy gas. Diesel is around 20 cents/litre cheaper in Spain.

Then you people should have elected the party that would slash the expenditures of the government.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:31 AM   #72
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Then you people should have elected the party that would slash the expenditures of the government.

Politicians lie as hell here. Besides people aren't that intelligent either At least we got the sun and beaches
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