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Old 10-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #41
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:14 PM   #42
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:17 PM   #43
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Tell you what, some of us warned you the poem was shit.


We'll see : )
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:40 PM   #44
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubs
first of all, the original french poem is in verse. that alone sets it drastically apart from bukowski. baudelaire uses strict consonant rhymes. i'm too lazy to count the syllables of each line, but i'm sure it is constant. it also uses metaphors. it worries about rhythm. i spent some time living in France and i was never in a situation where i'd imagine someone coming up to me and speaking like that. when you read bukowski, you usually notice a conversational tone throughout the poem. i think reading les fleurs du mal would be enough to say the poem in the OP is not baudelaire. — t'imagine?


I was not really referring to meters and rhythmn, more the content. Sure most of Les Fluers du Mal is not like OP's poem but when I read it, I immediately thought Bukowski and that particular Baudelaire poem.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:33 PM   #46
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:35 PM   #47
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We'll see : )

Yes, we will. And unless you're absolutely amazing at bullshitting (like the champion of all bullshit), then...we'll really see.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:49 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by neidnarb11890
a girl in one of my classes gave a pretty good talk on a Tristan Tzara poem. I was impressed. TS needs to try harder.

I never really understood how "trying harder" worked.

Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ : 10-08-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:24 AM   #49
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My master's was in literary criticism with an emphasis on later poetry; I'm in the absolute perfect situation to help you...

Granted I wasted my time studying English so now I get trashed every night and I'm far too drunk to make suggestions as to how you might analyze the poem.

I guess you should just remember: no one cares "what" a poem means, an analysis needs to focus entire on "how" a poem means.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:25 AM   #50
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To my mind, the poem does have meaning, but it requires that the reader understands the context in which it is written - i.e. has some understanding of what is generally expected in poetry. It's reflecting on people's expectations of the arts and the extent to which artists are valued.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:51 AM   #51
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that's why you can't pass freshman English, bb.

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instead of just saying "it's absurdist, there is no meaning", TS could focus on irony or smthng.

Yeah I mean there's obv tons of meaning here. But if y'r not sufficiently acquainted with the meaning of "meaning" in academic-or-whatever discourse, you won't necessarily be able to consciously identify all the things that contribute to the meaning, even if you process them at a non-analytical level. And then there's the problem of communicating them.

Like, I could make observations about this 'poem' in terms of irony, tone, character, context within the larger work, etc. But I wouldn't be able to say as much as I ought to be able to. And I'm sure there's sense to be made of its presentation—the line length, for example. But I'm not equipped for that.

Learning is a weird process. Feel like for the most part the public education system just teaches reductionist thinking, and stuff beyond that requires time for varied experience and reflection. Some people don't get that kind of time/experience/reflection. "Thinking abt" yr homework isn't the same as reflection.

When ur dumb ur dumb.

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Old 10-09-2012, 03:09 AM   #52
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Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:37 AM   #53
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OP, go pick any random poem by Gerard Reve. That guy was a genius.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:47 AM   #54
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I don't particularly like it, but the number of people stating that the poem in the OP is objectively 'bad' is ridiculous.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by METAL_MAN135
Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.


I agree. I don't think this particular poem has any meaning.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:21 AM   #56
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EDIT: ^then again, you said it's absurdism, so that would make perfect sense. METAL_MAN actually described absurdist philosophy quite well. Camus would be proud.

Look at the language itself. What kinds of words is he using? (I'll give you a hint, booze and porn are pretty casual, informal terms). Is he speaking actively, passively, agressively, etc.? How do the words sound? How do all of those things contribute to the tone?

Look at the structure. Why is the first stanza half as long as the second? How do they differ? Why are the long sentences broken up into small fragments?

I'm a little confused though, you said this is a translation? You should look at the original text if you're going to analyze something like that. It's less about what is said and more about how it's said.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:54 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by snipelfritz

I'm a little confused though, you said this is a translation? You should look at the original text if you're going to analyze something like that. It's less about what is said and more about how it's said.


Here's the original, I tried.

"Mijn wijf werkt
zich kapot
zodat ik me
volledig kan
wijden aan de kunst

zogenaamd,
want wat ik
vooral
dus doe is zuipen
en porno kijken.
Daarnaast kanker
ik veel op
iedereen die
wel iets doet."

Ofcourse it's a bit different in english
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by METAL_MAN135
Find a deeper meaning? It amazes me how people think that everything has a deep meaning.

I write songs about drinking beer and having sex because I like them; there is no deeper meaning.

I will laugh my tits off if the author of the poem is interviewed, and he says he wrote the poem because he likes porn and beer.


The author's intentions have no effect on the reader's interpretation.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:02 AM   #59
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So why does the English translation have 15 lines when the original has 14? Obviously the original is a mock sonnet. That explains a lot about the way it's organized.

Absurdism-as-defined-by-Wikipedia is truly the perfect excuse for teenagers who wanna be intellectual but still want easy answers.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:11 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by █▐▌█▐▌
So why does the English translation have 15 lines when the original has 14? Obviously the original is a mock sonnet. That explains a lot about the way it's organized.

Absurdism-as-defined-by-Wikipedia is truly the perfect excuse for teenagers who wanna be intellectual but still want easy answers.

Bingo! Now we're onto something (referring to the sonnet thing). Take that and run with it.

And for sure, just saying, "it's absurd and has no meaning" is pretty weak. You can go a lot further than that even with what seems like a simple text.

Context, connotation, some other c word look for that kind of stuff.
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