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View Poll Results: What is your stance on abortion?
Pro-Life 40 12.82%
Pro-Choice 229 73.40%
Pro-Catf*cking 43 13.78%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #181
whywefight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgery
there are no pro life people and no pro choice people

there's pro-abortion and anti-abortion

and i am most definitely for abortion


This, oh my god this. I am pro-life and pro-choice. Dumbest terms ever
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Todd Hart
Humans are bundles of cells with sentience, fetuses aren't. If you have gangrene in your finger then you have it amputated, you don't consider whether or not the cells of that finger are really human. Likewise, if you have a fetus that will become a child and ruin your life by being a strain on you due to your age/condition the like then you abort it.

And who's to say that killing someone means you lose your humanity? And if you do kill someone for killing someone then surely the executioner should be killed, as should his/her executioner, and his/her executioner and so on and so forth.
So dogs are sentient, so they're human. Dolphins are sentient and very intelligent, so they're human. Tacos aren't sentient, so they aren't humans.

Got it!

There's also a difference between killing and murder. They aren't the same thing.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:12 PM   #183
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Turns out element isn't being serious.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:12 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by CodChick
It's a woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

I actually got in the newspaper for a letter to the editor because a Bishop was condemming a catholic hospital for giving an abortion in order to save the life of a mother, who already had 4 kids.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/op...1871e3ce6c.html

Oh grumpy old men...

i'd kill a 5 year old to save an adult, a fetus is like a yawn
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:13 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by element4433
So dogs are sentient, so they're human. Dolphins are sentient and very intelligent, so they're human. Tacos aren't sentient, so they aren't humans.

Got it!

There's also a difference between killing and murder. They aren't the same thing.


I laughed.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:13 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by willT08
With added sentience, self-awareness and consciousness. The two are barely analagous. A clump of mould and a fetus share more than a fetus and me.


What do you think is worthy of the death penalty?

EDIT: Todd, rather than both of us argue I'm gonna leave you to it so element doesn't have to respond to two people saying by and large the same thing Gonna have a shower and see where you guys get to.
I'm anti-death penalty. And pro-legal abortion.
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Originally Posted by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

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Old 10-09-2012, 01:13 PM   #187
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The Star Trek: TNG clip on whether or not Data, an android, is sentient or not may be relevant here. Of course it's quite different in terms of subject matter, but maybe relateable.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:14 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
I'm anti-death penalty. And pro-legal abortion.

Cool. But you're arguing the other side for the time being so there's no need for you to respond to a gang of people saying the same stuff.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by element4433
So dogs are sentient, so they're human. Dolphins are sentient and very intelligent, so they're human. Tacos aren't sentient, so they aren't humans.

Got it!

There's also a difference between killing and murder. They aren't the same thing.


I didn't say sentience made something human, I said humans are (generally) sentient. Foetuses aren't.

However, the point I was originally making is that it's hypocritical to believe that killing animals is fine but that killing even less sentient creatures simply because they are born of humans is wrong, because it places humans on a pedestal that they don't deserve. Plus, if you think that destroying a foetus is wrong simply because it's human then undergoing treatment for cancer is equally wrong, because that's just as human and just as non-sentient as a foetus is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincrunk
i'd kill a 5 year old to save an adult, a fetus is like a yawn


This man, as usual, gets it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #190
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So are braindead people humans? Or worthless clusters of cells?

Also, cows aren't people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by element4433
So are braindead people humans? Or worthless clusters of cells?

I support pulling the plug. Consistency, consistency
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:26 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
So are braindead people humans? Or worthless clusters of cells?

Also, cows aren't people.

They're not clusters of cells, since they have discrete tissues and organs.
But once brain death occurs, they aren't really people anymore. That's the mental disconnect that will allow me to slaughter legions of zombies, when the time comes.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:28 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by slapsymcdougal
They're not clusters of cells, since they have discrete tissues and organs.
But once brain death occurs, they aren't really people anymore. That's the mental disconnect that will allow me to slaughter legions of zombies, when the time comes.
Organs and tissues are clusters of cells.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:28 PM   #194
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The fact of the matter when it come to abortion is if you view life to begin at conception then abortion is murder. However most people in western society (due to modern medicine, stem cells etc.) don't view the fetus as being a person, therefore abortion is not an issue. I personally am not sure if I consider a fetus to be human and I put the burden of proof on those who claim the fetus is not a human being. Therefore I do not support abortion on those grounds - a woman (or man) should not any legal choice when it murder.

However there are a great number of people that look at abortion as a means to sexual promiscuity, i.e. if you have sex a lot abortion, removes the risk of unwanted pregnancy thus allowing "unlimited" sex. A large number of conservatives that oppose abortion do so because of perceived sexual abuses as a culture due to abortion being legal.

This in my mind opens up a new discussion about what healthy sexual intercourse looks like. As far as mainstream culture is concerned (as far as I can tell from the outside) sex is primarily a vehicle of personal gratification - to "feel good." From the perspective of the Christian Church it is something that is taboo and shameful that we don't talk about and avoid at all costs. In my mind both of these views are far from healthy.

Edit: I will also that if it turns out that whether or not a fetus is considered to be a human being is merely a question of theology/philosophy then the responsibility of the government (in a democracy) is to protect the freedoms of its people, not the religious ideology of the majority religion. At this point I don't think we can make that assumption quite yet.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #195
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Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.

Pro-choice respects the pregnant woman's ability to decide what is the best course of action. Pro-choice recognises that a pregnant woman has a right to be able to remove an unwanted foetus from her body and that there should always be a safe option for women to do so. Pro-choice does not give more rights to a bundle of cells than a woman with a family and friends, who is part of society. Pro-choice supports a woman's decision to keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption, or terminate it before it becomes a baby.

Pro-choice also supports access to contraception which prevents pregnancy happening in the first place. Abortion is NOT a form of contraception, it does not prevent a baby from being conceived.

Pro-choice doesn't condemn women for enjoying sex.

One less child in the foster system is not a bad thing.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:04 PM   #196
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We're against abortion, but for killing babies.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #197
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I'm pro-choice.

But I understand the concerns of pro-lifers. As a compromise I support the laws (I know France and a few others have these laws) which allow abortions until 12 weeks have passed since conception. It also makes sense because I believe that is around the time the nervous system begins to develop (I could be wrong here).
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:21 PM   #198
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Was gonna post this. Vote Regressive 2012.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:34 PM   #199
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Thanks for the help Pit! Ironically enough, the pro-lifers are out today with giant posters of aborted 10 and 11 week old fetuses since Obama's speaking here a little later.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:49 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by shavorules42
Thanks for the help Pit! Ironically enough, the pro-lifers are out today with giant posters of aborted 10 and 11 week old fetuses since Obama's speaking here a little later.

They're more than likely images of miscarried foetuses much older than 11 weeks. I did see an image circulating of an apparent foetus that had been aborted by "saline" showing the "chemical burns" it had suffered.
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