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View Poll Results: What is your stance on abortion?
Pro-Life 40 12.82%
Pro-Choice 229 73.40%
Pro-Catf*cking 43 13.78%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:10 AM   #221
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Adoption is not valid option at all really. There are already far too many children who need to be adopted and not enough homes to take them in. If everyone who gets abortions were to give their kids up for adoption instead it would cripple the system overnight.

A guy tried that once, in Romania.




But at least his life had a chance to begin right?


This.
It's not that I'm particularly pro-abortion, I'd rather see people being more careful in their intercourse than seeing unwanted pregnancies, but what you just said is inescapably true.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #222
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Why don't you ask the children in those orphanages if they'd rather be dead? I don't think many of them would respond with a yes.

All in all, I don't believe, morally, that anyone should have an abortion unless the baby's birth is going to kill the mother.

However I also believe that anyone that shares my opinion should be willing to take in at least one baby OR sponsor a family that is taking care of an adopted baby to the best of their ability.

This does present a problem, though. As there could possibly be many couples having babies and just giving them away. Therefore I think it would be fitting that any woman/man who have been proven to have two babies or more without caring for them should be sterilized, not including cases of rape. If you can't be responsible with your bodily consequences, you shouldn't be allowed the right to reproduce.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #223
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Pro-lifers come across as completely fucking deluded.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:48 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by c3powil
Why don't you ask the children in those orphanages if they'd rather be dead? I don't think many of them would respond with a yes.

You'd have to ask them a different question. It'd be more like "Would you rather you hadn't been born?"
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by willT08
You'd have to ask them a different question. It'd be more like "Would you rather you hadn't been born?"



That's true. But, religion aside, I think it's more or less the same question. Granted, to become dead, one has to be killed, although, when aborting a fetus, it is indeed killed. The differentiating factor being a sentient death.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:01 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by c3powil
Why don't you ask the children in those orphanages if they'd rather be dead? I don't think many of them would respond with a yes.

All in all, I don't believe, morally, that anyone should have an abortion unless the baby's birth is going to kill the mother.

However I also believe that anyone that shares my opinion should be willing to take in at least one baby OR sponsor a family that is taking care of an adopted baby to the best of their ability.

This does present a problem, though. As there could possibly be many couples having babies and just giving them away. Therefore I think it would be fitting that any woman/man who have been proven to have two babies or more without caring for them should be sterilized, not including cases of rape. If you can't be responsible with your bodily consequences, you shouldn't be allowed the right to reproduce.

Ensuring that you try to provide a safe, healthy and supported life for your child is being responsible. Bringing a child into the world that is not guaranteed that is irresponsible.
That's the reason why I will not give birth to a baby until I know that I can support it. It's not fair on the child, it's not fair on the welfare system.

I currently use contraception to prevent pregnancy. I am being responsible by ensuring that the method I use is over 99% effective in preventing pregnancy. But accidents do happen and birth control can still fail (I use the implant).

If I was to find out I am pregnant now and not terminate the pregnancy, I would have to give up my job as it involves heavy lifting and I would not be able to complete my 1 year apprenticeship. I would be forced to claim benefits until after the baby is born and then my chances of finding a job would be extremely low afterwards. The father would be miles away because it is a long distance relationship and unable to support both myself and the baby.
I do not want to leave parenting of my child to someone else. I don't want my child to face the foster system. There are plenty of kids in the foster system who were not given up at birth that need loving families.

How can I be called immoral for trying everything to prevent pregnancy (not including abstinence) but when it happens wanting to stop being pregnant? To tell me I am being immoral for not wanting to abandon my child isn't very nice. Nor do I appreciate the fact that people care more for an unfeeling growth in my womb than me.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by c3powil
That's true. But, religion aside, I think it's more or less the same question. Granted, to become dead, one has to be killed, although, when aborting a fetus, it is indeed killed. The differentiating factor being a sentient death.

Religion aside? What does religion have to do with it? It's a completely different question. The sentience of the thing being killed (along with it having no experience of living) makes it perfectly fine to kill it.

Nobody flips their shit like "OH MY GOD! YOU GOT YOUR MOLE REMOVED?!? MURDERER!"
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by OddOneOut
Ensuring that you try to provide a safe, healthy and supported life for your child is being responsible. Bringing a child into the world that is not guaranteed that is irresponsible.
That's the reason why I will not give birth to a baby until I know that I can support it. It's not fair on the child, it's not fair on the welfare system.
I currently use contraception to prevent pregnancy. If I was to find out I am pregnant now and not terminate the pregnancy, I would have to give up my job as it involves heavy lifting and I would not be able to complete my 1 year apprenticeship. I would be forced to claim benefits until after the baby is born and then my chances of finding a job would be extremely low afterwards. The father would be miles away because it is a long distance relationship and unable to support both myself and the baby.
I do not want to leave parenting of my child to someone else. I don't want my child to face the foster system. There are plenty of kids in the foster system who were not given up at birth that need loving families.

To tell me I am being immoral for not wanting to abandon my child isn't very nice. Nor do I appreciate the fact that people care more for an unfeeling growth in my womb than me.


All I said was what I believe to be moral. I don't know if I'm getting this right or not, but it seems like you're saying you would rather terminate your pregnancy than give your baby to a home where it has a good chance of receiving loving care. And you resent the fact that people care more about your baby than you do?

I'm sorry if I'm getting that wrong, but that just sounds awful.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:12 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by c3powil
All I said was what I believe to be moral. I don't know if I'm getting this right or not, but it seems like you're saying you would rather terminate your pregnancy than give your baby to a home where it has a good chance of receiving loving care. And you resent the fact that people care more about your baby than you do?

I'm sorry if I'm getting that wrong, but that just sounds awful.


I'm just going to save us both some time by cutting to the chase here. Fuck off, you insufferable, pious, ignorant, bible-bashing wanker.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:12 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by willT08
Religion aside? What does religion have to do with it? It's a completely different question. The sentience of the thing being killed (along with it having no experience of living) makes it perfectly fine to kill it.

Nobody flips their shit like "OH MY GOD! YOU GOT YOUR MOLE REMOVED?!? MURDERER!"


A mole is not going to become a living, breathing human being. A fetus will.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
I'm just going to save us both some time by cutting to the chase here. Fuck off, you insufferable, pious, ignorant, bible-bashing wanker.


When did I ever bring religion into this?

I swear, you people are so hostile sometimes. Why don't you tell me how I'm being pious, ignorant, or bible-bashing instead of just calling me names?
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:14 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by c3powil
A mole is not going to become a living, breathing human being. A fetus will.

So?

And even then, about half of them won't even make that.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:17 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by c3powil
All I said was what I believe to be moral. I don't know if I'm getting this right or not, but it seems like you're saying you would rather terminate your pregnancy than give your baby to a home where it has a good chance of receiving loving care. And you resent the fact that people care more about your baby than you do?

I'm sorry if I'm getting that wrong, but that just sounds awful.

There is no guarantee of the baby going to a loving home. There are so many children waiting to be adopted already, why should a foetus that I don't want to give birth to, take the place of a child who has been born, had a bad life through no fault of their own, in desperate need of a home and family? Why would I want to put a potential child of mine through that?
Why should I go through a birth that could potentially prevent me from having more children in the future?

And no. I resent the fact that people care more about this
than myself.

There is nothing awful about caring more about people that are already living lives than a foetus.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:19 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by willT08
So?

And even then, about half of them won't even make that.


I'm saying that if something is in the process of becoming a living person, it deserves a chance.
And bear in mind, this is my opinion. I don't get why so many people here think that I'm trying to force everyone to believe what I believe.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by c3powil
I'm saying that if something is in the process of becoming a living person, it deserves a chance.

It's being a group of cells means it can ruin a woman's body and potentially life...yeah, mate, no.

Quote:
And bear in mind, this is my opinion. I don't get why so many people here think that I'm trying to force everyone to believe what I believe.


I think you'd be hard pressed to make anyone believe what you believe.

EDIT: Also, considering the long list of things that can lead to perfectly natural miscarriages and 'spontaneous abortions' you'd have to legislate against women doing all kinds of things.

For example, I don't see how you can so fervently believe that a fetus has a right to life and not be pushing for legislation to prosecute women who are not suitably quick in seeking treatment of thyroid problems after being sexually active.

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Old 10-10-2012, 04:33 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by OddOneOut
There is no guarantee of the baby going to a loving home. There are so many children waiting to be adopted already, why should a foetus that I don't want to give birth to, take the place of a child who has been born, had a bad life through no fault of their own, in desperate need of a home and family? Why would I want to put a potential child of mine through that?
Why should I go through a birth that could potentially prevent me from having more children in the future?

And no. I resent the fact that people care more about this
than myself.

There is nothing awful about caring more about people that are already living lives than a foetus.


OH OH OH
I get what you're saying about the fetus thing now. So sorry.

The difference between us is that I believe that a fertilized egg/fetus, in the process of becoming a child, is just as important as a fully formed child. I believe that if you terminate it, it is akin to killing a baby. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm simply stating mine. If you decide to abort, that's fine, it's your body and your potential child. I realize that not everyone shares my belief system, so there's no reason to bind everyone to it. But to ME it's different. I will do everything in my power to provide homes and resources for children who have been put in such positions. I will plead for pregnant women to rethink aborting. But at the end of the day that is all I can do.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by c3powil
OH OH OH
I get what you're saying about the fetus thing now. So sorry.

The difference between us is that I believe that a fertilized egg/fetus, in the process of becoming a child, is just as important as a fully formed child. I believe that if you terminate it, it is akin to killing a baby. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm simply stating mine. If you decide to abort, that's fine, it's your body and your potential child. I realize that not everyone shares my belief system, so there's no reason to bind everyone to it. But to ME it's different. I will do everything in my power to provide homes and resources for children who have been put in such positions. I will plead for pregnant women to rethink aborting. But at the end of the day that is all I can do.


Other than yuck factor, why do you assume it's wrong to kill a newborn baby?
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by c3powil
OH OH OH
I get what you're saying about the fetus thing now. So sorry.

The difference between us is that I believe that a fertilized egg/fetus, in the process of becoming a child, is just as important as a fully formed child. I believe that if you terminate it, it is akin to killing a baby. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm simply stating mine. If you decide to abort, that's fine, it's your body and your potential child. I realize that not everyone shares my belief system, so there's no reason to bind everyone to it. But to ME it's different. I will do everything in my power to provide homes and resources for children who have been put in such positions. I will plead for pregnant women to rethink aborting. But at the end of the day that is all I can do.

So you're pro-choice.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by c3powil
OH OH OH
I get what you're saying about the fetus thing now. So sorry.

The difference between us is that I believe that a fertilized egg/fetus, in the process of becoming a child, is just as important as a fully formed child. I believe that if you terminate it, it is akin to killing a baby. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm simply stating mine. If you decide to abort, that's fine, it's your body and your potential child. I realize that not everyone shares my belief system, so there's no reason to bind everyone to it. But to ME it's different. I will do everything in my power to provide homes and resources for children who have been put in such positions. I will plead for pregnant women to rethink aborting. But at the end of the day that is all I can do.

Ok. But please don't be one of those awful people outside of clinics who heckle and berate pregnant women and I trust that you genuinely do respect the choice of a woman when it comes to her body. Keep helping those kids bro, they need it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:38 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by c3powil
OH OH OH
I get what you're saying about the fetus thing now. So sorry.

The difference between us is that I believe that a fertilized egg/fetus, in the process of becoming a child, is just as important as a fully formed child. I believe that if you terminate it, it is akin to killing a baby. I'm not trying to force my opinion on you. I'm simply stating mine. If you decide to abort, that's fine, it's your body and your potential child. I realize that not everyone shares my belief system, so there's no reason to bind everyone to it. But to ME it's different. I will do everything in my power to provide homes and resources for children who have been put in such positions. I will plead for pregnant women to rethink aborting. But at the end of the day that is all I can do.


So let me ask you my question - If you were in a burning building, and there were 30 fertilized and developing fetuses and one 3 month old baby, and you could only save one, you would save the fetuses?
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:49 PM   #240
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The whole 'i bet you're glad your mom didn't abort you' is the worst argument for anything ever. Stop projecting your consciousness and experience onto a fetus. They are not tiny people with opinions, hopes, and experiences just waiting for the opportunity to grow up. It's just factually not true. Period.
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