Horsedick.MPEG

Universities here usually are 4 year facilities. Community colleges are only usually 2 year.



That too

__________________
Voted as #7 Uger




Add me on Facebook

Soundcloud

UGMC

If I’ve offended you, please accept my apology. Then smack yourself in the face for getting offended by something on the Internet.

Neo Evil11

Ok good to know. Here we have MBO (4 years for jobs like: electrician, carpenter etc), HBO (4 years for jobs like teacher, all kinds of stuff in the medical profession apart from doctors ) and University for all good paying jobs with less applied stuff.

slapsymcdougal

Nope.
Tertiary education in the UK includes further education as well as higher education.

__________________

Neo Evil11

Yeah but then it's really weird if 40% would go to University?

slapsymcdougal

Well, it would appear that a few things that wouldn't be classed as university in Holland are university courses in the UK, like physiotherapy, dietetics, nursing, radiography and stuff.

__________________

Cianyx

I won't stick my neck out by saying you guys are smart but the level of arguments here are far more refined than any other entertainment forum I generally frequent, which is mostly brain drivel. I'd probably say that the pit is far more knowledgeable than the general population.

(I know that isn't saying much)

@Neo_Evil Quality of tertiary institution also counts. In Australia, it's possible to get into uni just by writing something tangentially related to the exam, though no one really treats that as an achievement

Neo Evil11

Yeah that's HBO. Although with the Bachelor and Master programs, these institutes now try to call themselves Universities too. If that goes through that would be a disaster for real universities if the BSc degrees are suddenly the same as those of the less intelligent people.

slapsymcdougal

jakey institutions are always known, it's just the people who graduate from those who think it's academic snobbery to refer to, for example, Glasgow Caledonian University as an overdressed hairdressing polytechnic.

__________________

Weaponized

I wish I could change my answer to stupid after reading a few recent posts :|

__________________

SlackerBabbath

Depends what you mean by 'intellectual potential' really. Are there really people who are naturaly intelligent or is it more down to how and what they are taught? It's a nature 'v' nurture thing.

Take art for example, there are so many people who claim that you need natural talent in order to be a competant artist, but personaly I consider that to be complete bullshit, practicaly anyone can paint pictures to quite a high standard, all they need is to be taught the techniques in a way that they understand. To me, it's exactly the same thing as reading and writing, we don't consider that people need to be naturaly talented in order to be able to read and write, practicaly everyone can read and write in today's world, they just need to be taught how to do it.

I think intelligence can be similar, I think that it's not particularly what you start off with, although that is important to a certain extent, it's more about what you do with it that defines how intelligent you become. To me, intelligence is mainly about the nurture.

I also think that the point where nature comes into it is to do with the way that a person needs to be taught in order to reach their true intelligence potential. In that respect, everyone varies. One teaching technique will work great for one pupil but not for another. But that doesn't make one pupil more intelligent than the other, they could probably both reach the same potential if their personaly ideal way of being taught can be found.

__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius




Slacker's Gallery Feel free to view my paintings and leave comments.

Neo Evil11

no matter whar you do, you can't teach me to make a decent painting man. Whereas I think that someone of a lower intelligence will not so easily do better than me in school. Certainly nurture is very important, but nature defines how easy you learn and your maximum potential. But this debate hasnt been settled and we can't do that here either lol.

TooktheAtrain

Effort is a much better predictor of academic attainment than intellectual ability.
Obviously, it's necessary to have a minimum of both, but assuming average IQ and incredible diligence, odds are they will succeed more than someone with above average intelligence and **** all discipline. I especially relate to the latter.

I'll try to find a source if I can, I know I have a book somewhere that cites some studies.


Yep. A study was done where students of music were studied, and the findings were that the only factor that distinguished the elite students from the least 'talented' was the amount of time invested, and the nature and structure of their practice.

There's a concept of 'deliberate practice' that is defined as such:



So, effort and carefully tailored practice schedules are far more important, generally speaking, than vague traits considered innate such as 'intelligence' and 'talent'.

OddOneOut

Extremely average. If you were to map out a graph of the population of the pit vs intelligence, it would be a nice bell curve.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renka OddOneOut is an Essex S&M mistress and not a pirate or a computer program.

Mr E Meat

circlejerk for morons

if i wasnt amused i wouldnt stick around <3

__________________
Bad@guitar

SlackerBabbath

I'd be willing to bet £1000 that I can. If I could teach you, on a one to one personal basis (not over the internet) I could definately show you the techniques of painting and in hardly any time have you painting a pretty convincing landscape.

Put it this way, I taught my daughter how to paint at 10 years of age, in one single afternoon, she went from someone who really didn't have a clue where to even start to someone who had just painted a landscape that featured a canal surrounded by vegetation at sunset... that painting was recently considered as good enough to be placed in a local gallery with quite a decent price tag on it.


I disagree, I think that nature defines the way in which we need to be taught in order to reach our maximum potential, but not necessarily the limit of our potential. (that said, obviously it does in certain respects, people who are born with abnormal brain deficiencies for example) While many will get advantage from being taught a certain 'standard' way, many others need to be shown from a slightly different angle before they 'get it' in the same way as the others do.

Take me for example, all through school, I just couldn't get the hang of fractions, our teacher went over them again and again on the blackboard, showing the standard techniques for adding them together or for subtracting them from each other, but it just wouldn't gell for me, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't understand them and I still didn't understand them when I left school, which really didn't seem to matter very much at the time because the whole country had supposedly converted to metric, but when I started work I found that in many places, (including the factory that I had just got a job in) it was all still imperial measurements with feet, inches and fractions.

Guess what? It took my first gaffer 5 minutes with the marks on an imperial tape measure to make me fully understand fractions. He just showed me in very basic terms how they work, the penny dropped for me and suddenly I understood what they were all about.

Agreed.

__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius




Slacker's Gallery Feel free to view my paintings and leave comments.

laid-to-waste

i agree. i didn't understand fractions very well throughout GCSE exams (as well as other areas of maths too), but once i was taught it in the way that fractions are 'the number of times the denominator fits into the numerator', i instantly got it. with the same amount of work, i got an A in the AS level and a B in the GCSE. i too think that nature just determines the way in which we learn best.

__________________

Neo Evil11

Here's the thing where I think there's the division between nature and nurture. I am sure you can be a very good teacher, the thing is my hands are just completely useless. I can barely write readable, no matter how hard I try. I can't made straight lines, curved lines whatever, it's all wobbly with wrong proportions. So I don't believe no matter how good you explain to me how to paint, I simply won't be able to. Whereas my sister practically makes a second living next to her work by making drawings, cards etc. for people.

I agree with the fact that nurture/the way they teach you, is very important. I am just saying that some people simply don't get some stuff, or take so much longer to grasp it, even using their preferred method, that they cannot attain the level of "the smarter" ones in 6 years of education. I think some people just have a talent for something. Sure it goes with a certain standard of efford, but saying someone with an IQ of 100 can get a magna cum laude degree in technical mathematics, seems just silly to me. You need a certain talent in the subject to achieve a high standard in it.

SlackerBabbath

Believe it or not, having shaky or wobbly hands is perfect for painting twisted gnarly trees. Also, there are practicaly no straight lines in nature, so landscapes don't usualy require them.

Also, I too have shaky hands, ( a result of a lifetime of partying) I also write in an almost illegible manner, I also cannot draw a straight line, I also used to draw out of proportion, until I learned the techniques to help me to draw in proportion.


I'm that convinced that I could get a result from you, I'll up my bet to £5000.



But how do you know what a person's 'preferred method' is? Until a person finds a way to learn something that places them within the same level as the standard, I wouldn't exactly call it a 'preferred method'.

There's no reason why a person with a low general IQ can't have a talent for technical mathematics, ever heard of a 'savant'?

__________________
“Our life is what our thoughts make it.”
― Marcus Aurelius




Slacker's Gallery Feel free to view my paintings and leave comments.

Mr E Meat

oh god lmao the posts after mine just force it in hahaha

__________________
Bad@guitar