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Old 10-18-2012, 02:47 AM   #21
Reincaster
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It's still a real Eminence speaker. Just because you don't like the sound of these particular speakers doesn't mean it represents the entire brand. Why would they make so many different speakers if they sounded the same? Since rocket 50's are probably the same range as these Chinese Eminence, does that mean Celestion makes crappy speakers too?

Cabinet dimensions have A LOT to do with the sound of a cabinet. Doesn't the construction of an acoustic guitar change the sound of the guitar? Same principle here.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincaster
It's still a real Eminence speaker. Just because you don't like the sound of these particular speakers doesn't mean it represents the entire brand. Why would they make so many different speakers if they sounded the same? Since rocket 50's are probably the same range as these Chinese Eminence, does that mean Celestion makes crappy speakers too?

Cabinet dimensions have A LOT to do with the sound of a cabinet. Doesn't the construction of an acoustic guitar change the sound of the guitar? Same principle here.


they are not real eminences in terms of what you can buy. they are likely cheaply made shitty speakers that are passable in a combo. not anything like a V12 or swamp thing.

i have an eminence speaker from blackheart. it sucks too. same deal as the jet city speaker (obviously not the same) but either way the speakers suck.

celestion does make shitty speakers, rocket 50's, seventy80's, there are some older ones that suck too. for instance a M70 i am trying to dump it for like $40 and it hasn't sold., i have had two and nobody jumps on them.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Blktiger0
No Problem

I tried something similar, but I couldn't pry it off. The tolex was just stuck together where it had been touching, plus the panel was just slightly big for the space it fit in, which I suppose was a good thing in terms of sound isolation and ruggedness. I'll probably pick one of those things up for future cab-openings, though

I didn't figure that they were. If so, it would turn me away from Eminence, considering I really dislike these speakers, at least for what I play and the amp I'm using. There's just an utter lack of upper-mids, which is unacceptable for Metal, especially of the Groove/Thrash vairety. They might not be bad for Death Metal or maybe even Sludge Metal or Stoner Metal, where the upper mids aren't the main frequency you want, but the clarity they lack is still annoying, not to mention the high end is a bit of a pain in the ass.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the extra airspace inside created by the blue section on the front of the cab. It's just empty space in the cab, and I don't know what that does to the sound or response. It does make it significanty taller than other cabs, though, but it's not quite as deep as a Mesa 2x12. Is there some kind of documentation anywhere about what cab dimensions do to the sound of the cab?




and that's a concern if you really struggled to get the back off- though yours was an older one, wasn't it? Still, considering i'd be buying it and meaning to swap the speakers almost immediately, i wouldn't be best pleased if I couldn't get the back off.

the v12s are definitely on the smooth side and have more lower mids, but they're pretty tight, too.

i'm not sure about the height of the thing, how that'd affect the sound. Depth of the cab seems to affect things a fair bit, maybe more than width, but that might be BS. Also dimensions seem to be more important if the cab is closed-back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
they are not real eminences in terms of what you can buy. they are likely cheaply made shitty speakers that are passable in a combo. not anything like a V12 or swamp thing.

i have an eminence speaker from blackheart. it sucks too. same deal as the jet city speaker (obviously not the same) but either way the speakers suck.

celestion does make shitty speakers, rocket 50's, seventy80's, there are some older ones that suck too. for instance a M70 i am trying to dump it for like $40 and it hasn't sold., i have had two and nobody jumps on them.


+1

Of course it doesn't mean the whole company sucks, but it does mean you don't judge the company based on its cheapo models, or that the cheapo models bear any relation to that company's premium models.

using that logic squiers are "real fenders".
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:18 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc


and that's a concern if you really struggled to get the back off- though yours was an older one, wasn't it? Still, considering i'd be buying it and meaning to swap the speakers almost immediately, i wouldn't be best pleased if I couldn't get the back off.

the v12s are definitely on the smooth side and have more lower mids, but they're pretty tight, too.

i'm not sure about the height of the thing, how that'd affect the sound. Depth of the cab seems to affect things a fair bit, maybe more than width, but that might be BS. Also dimensions seem to be more important if the cab is closed-back.



+1

Of course it doesn't mean the whole company sucks, but it does mean you don't judge the company based on its cheapo models, or that the cheapo models bear any relation to that company's premium models.

using that logic squiers are "real fenders".


That's not my point. It is in a sense that MIM/MIJ Fenders are still real fenders. Squiers have the "by fender" script underneath it. These say "EMINENCE", not "by Eminence" or "Designed by Eminence", or "Licensed by Eminence".

If the Squier bullet line all of a sudden just said "Fender" on the headstock, no matter how crappy they are, they are now "real" Fenders, but a poor choice on their part to put their name on the bullets.

Bottom line is that a $220 2x12 cabinet either compromised the speakers or construction, and sometimes both.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincaster
That's not my point. It is in a sense that MIM/MIJ Fenders are still real fenders. Squiers have the "by fender" script underneath it. These say "EMINENCE", not "by Eminence" or "Designed by Eminence", or "Licensed by Eminence".

If the Squier bullet line all of a sudden just said "Fender" on the headstock, no matter how crappy they are, they are now "real" Fenders, but a poor choice on their part to put their name on the bullets.

Bottom line is that a $220 2x12 cabinet either compromised the speakers or construction, and sometimes both.


i am not understanding your thought process. but if it is what i am thinking, they are MIC eminences, and not MIA eminences, like the ones you buy from a store.

they are made cheaply. they don't sound good. to get a real american eminence, the manufacturer would have to pay more making the combo amp/cab cost more then it does.

they are eminences on the the cheap

MIA eminences can be great, but they sound nothing like the "eminence inside" chinese speaker (remember i have one too)

if you see a logo of the amp/cab company on the back of the speaker on the sticker they probably aren't the good ones. you get a good cab they don't sticker it because they don't have anything to hide and want to get noticed. that is as far as any decent cab i have seen or owned.

/thread
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
i am sure they engineered that cab to the optimal conditions for those speakers. its not that hard, there are freeware speaker parameter data, software for getting the specs your way.

different speakers require more/less volume or various ports and port lengths (my randall 2x12+1x15 cab all in one, has a port on the front for the 15").

they are shitty speakers. i had a 2112RC combo (actually the thrid, the other two died when fired it up but i bought new and sent them back) the speaker was terrible. if you want a cab with good speakers you pay for it. Rocket 50's suck too. equally if not more.

good speakers are not cheap.


That makes sense, in terms of dimension.

I know the Rocket 50's suck, I just liked that cab better in terms of looks only. I want to either trade this cab or swap the speakers. I would actually be pretty stoked if I could find someone who would trade for that Randall cab if it were in similar condition. I guess my main point to TS was that it's a quality build, but if there is another one that you're looking at that is quality as well, don't get this one over it expecting the speakers to be any better. The only reason I ended up buying this one is because I was told on here that it was likely the speakers were very close sounding to V30's, since that is what Mike uses in Soldano amps. That is most definitely not the case in any way.

As for the "dislike" of Eminence if these were real, it was more of a case that if these were actually comparable to their Ledgends like their "supposed" to be, I would probably avoid the Legends. That's not the case. Just like Rocket 50's aren't comparable to any of Celestions other speakers other than their cheapos. Basically, if these were just a Legend with a slight voicing difference, I would avoid Legends (not the case) just like if Rocket 50's were a V30 with specialized voicing, I would avoid V30's (again, not the case).
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
i am not understanding your thought process. but if it is what i am thinking, they are MIC eminences, and not MIA eminences, like the ones you buy from a store.

they are made cheaply. they don't sound good. to get a real american eminence, the manufacturer would have to pay more making the combo amp/cab cost more then it does.

they are eminences on the the cheap Exactly.

MIA eminences can be great, but they sound nothing like the "eminence inside" chinese speaker (remember i have one too)

if you see a logo of the amp/cab company on the back of the speaker on the sticker they probably aren't the good ones. you get a good cab they don't sticker it because they don't have anything to hide and want to get noticed. that is as far as any decent cab i have seen or owned.

/thread


[thread]

This is just a misunderstanding in semantics I guess. You said they are not real eminences, but they aren't fake ones either. What I think you meant to convey is that they are not MIA eminence speakers. My reading comprehension fails me sometimes. MIC/MIE Celestion vintage 30's are different, but they are still REAL Celestion speakers.


I have a Blackheart cab as well, with that same "Eminence Inside" badge. That same badge came with my Eminence Texas Heats, Neo Tonkerlite, and V12's. The badge does not indicate whether it is a "real" eminence or not.

:cheers
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincaster
[thread]

This is just a misunderstanding in semantics I guess. You said they are not real eminences, but they aren't fake ones either. What I think you meant to convey is that they are not MIA eminence speakers. My reading comprehension fails me sometimes. MIC/MIE Celestion vintage 30's are different, but they are still REAL Celestion speakers.


I have a Blackheart cab as well, with that same "Eminence Inside" badge. That same badge came with my Eminence Texas Heats, Neo Tonkerlite, and V12's. The badge does not indicate whether it is a "real" eminence or not.

:cheers


they are liscensed to that brand. they are made cheaply with inferior materials compared to the american ones. they are CHEAP SPEAKERS, if the amp had normal labeled speakers (Swamp thing for example) there is no brand. but if the amp came with swamp things they would not badge it with a brand sticker because they would want it to be seen demonstrating that they have the top quality speaker.

just like most people wouldn't cover up a Porsche emblem on a car, they want it seen like a quality speaker shown and not masked.

they are 'Real eminences' but they are of a lower line and quality standard and made in china.

i likely have that same blackheart speaker. it has a blackheart logo on most of it and an eminence logo. it is also MIC.

regarding celestions all are made in china. but they are the full line with same quality parts.

brittish celestions are better than chinese ones. but the newer ones are manufactured in the same way with the same parts and specs as the older ones.

i have around 24 Engilsh Celestions. i have a few new ones too.

i have like 9 or 10 cabs with 6 being 4x12" 2 being 2x12" and two 1x12"s

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i don't know what you are disputing or not comprehending. maybe you should just say MIM and MIA strats are like the MIC and MIA eminences. yes still fender, the other outsourced and has cheaper material.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by trashedlostfdup
they are liscensed to that brand. they are made cheaply with inferior materials compared to the american ones. they are CHEAP SPEAKERS, if the amp had normal labeled speakers (Swamp thing for example) there is no brand. but if the amp came with swamp things they would not badge it with a brand sticker because they would want it to be seen demonstrating that they have the top quality speaker.

just like most people wouldn't cover up a Porsche emblem on a car, they want it seen like a quality speaker shown and not masked.

they are 'Real eminences' but they are of a lower line and quality standard and made in china.

i likely have that same blackheart speaker. it has a blackheart logo on most of it and an eminence logo. it is also MIC.

regarding celestions all are made in china. but they are the full line with same quality parts.

brittish celestions are better than chinese ones. but the newer ones are manufactured in the same way with the same parts and specs as the older ones.

i have around 24 Engilsh Celestions. i have a few new ones too.

i have like 9 or 10 cabs with 6 being 4x12" 2 being 2x12" and two 1x12"s

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i don't know what you are disputing or not comprehending. maybe you should just say MIM and MIA strats are like the MIC and MIA eminences. yes still fender, the other outsourced and has cheaper material.



Being facetious here, but can you tell me what makes them better then? They're manufactured in the same way. They use the same materials. They're made to the same specs. The location makes them sound different? You just said that it's the same speaker entirely, only made in a different area of the globe.

Not trying to start up a flame here, but this kinda stuff bothers me, because it's basically racism. You just suggested that the only thing setting these apart (the location in which they are made) makes a noticable difference in sound. Just because it's made in China, doesn't mean it's worse quality. They just have cheaper labor, but that's only going to last so long until they're at the same level as the rest of the world in terms of wages, in which case, the factories will move somewhere else.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Blktiger0
Being facetious here, but can you tell me what makes them better then? They're manufactured in the same way. They use the same materials. They're made to the same specs. The location makes them sound different? You just said that it's the same speaker entirely, only made in a different area of the globe.

Not trying to start up a flame here, but this kinda stuff bothers me, because it's basically racism. You just suggested that the only thing setting these apart (the location in which they are made) makes a noticable difference in sound. Just because it's made in China, doesn't mean it's worse quality. They just have cheaper labor, but that's only going to last so long until they're at the same level as the rest of the world in terms of wages, in which case, the factories will move somewhere else.
That's not racism. It's prejudice.
Although I also doubt that is the case here.

China is largely known for creating low quallty products. From toys to toasters to tires. Nothing new there.

I'm not saying that is the case with Celestion, but it is quite easy to assume that based on China's manufacuring track record for the last 30 years.

I own six Chinese Celestion V30's, and four UK V30's. But they are not the same speaker, since they have different cones.
I like the UK ones better. But that has nothing to do with the country of origin.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Reincaster
(a) That's not my point. It is in a sense that MIM/MIJ Fenders are still real fenders. Squiers have the "by fender" script underneath it. These say "EMINENCE", not "by Eminence" or "Designed by Eminence", or "Licensed by Eminence".

If the Squier bullet line all of a sudden just said "Fender" on the headstock, no matter how crappy they are, they are now "real" Fenders, but a poor choice on their part to put their name on the bullets.

(b) Bottom line is that a $220 2x12 cabinet either compromised the speakers or construction, and sometimes both.


(a) well, sure, but that's sorta getting into semantics. If you judge "real", made-in-america eminences by the tone of the OEM chinese-made cheapo "eminences", you're silly. That's my point. Yes, technically they're "real" eminences because they're not fake and have the eminence name plastered all over them. But they're not "real" eminences from the point of view of not being premium quality speakers.

Plus whether or not a company decides to put its name on the thing or put "by" (like in fender's case) is normally a marketing decision, it doesn't affect how the outsourced things are built.

(b) yep, of course.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
(a) well, sure, but that's sorta getting into semantics. If you judge "real", made-in-america eminences by the tone of the OEM chinese-made cheapo "eminences", you're silly. That's my point. Yes, technically they're "real" eminences because they're not fake and have the eminence name plastered all over them. But they're not "real" eminences from the point of view of not being premium quality speakers.

Here we are again! haha. Interchanging "real" with "good"! Which is what confused me

Plus whether or not a company decides to put its name on the thing or put "by" (like in fender's case) is normally a marketing decision, it doesn't affect how the outsourced things are built.

I understand, I never implied that it did, if it came out that way, that wasn't my intention. My point was that if the plywood Squiers now said "Fender Stratocaster" on the headstock, they would be considered "real", but not "good"

(b) yep, of course.


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Old 10-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #33
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sure, i can agree with that
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:35 PM   #34
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OK since I stumbled onto this by chance... Here is the story.. Blackheart cab speakers are EMINENCE SPEAKERS!!! they are actually almost Identical to Tonespotters... Since I own a avatar cab with tonespotters in them I can compare them directly.. the only difference is cosmetic... I run into guitar snobs, amp snobs, pedal snobs, and now speaker snobs... however you're not comparing too different speakers , you quivaling over something that it appears no one knows jack about.. as far as where it is made... Its like saying grandas fried eggs taste better than yours. All subjective... The only comment I can objectively make it is there "MAYBE" a slight difference to an actual tonespotter speakers tone. my avatar cab is open back 2x12 the 1x12 cab I have the single blackheart speaker in is a 18x18x12 closed cab. Not the blackheart cab!.. . " I know it's only Rock N Roll... but I like it"

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Old 03-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #35
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #36
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OK since I stumbled onto this by chance... Here is the story.. Blackheart cab speakers are EMINENCE SPEAKERS!!! they are actually almost Identical to Tonespotters... Since I own a avatar cab with tonespotters in them I can compare them directly.. the only difference is cosmetic... I run into guitar snobs, amp snobs, pedal snobs, and now speaker snobs... however you're not comparing too different speakers , you quivaling over something that it appears no one knows jack about.. as far as where it is made... Its like saying grandas fried eggs taste better than yours. All subjective... The only comment I can objectively make it is there "MAYBE" a slight difference to an actual tonespotter speakers tone. my avatar cab is open back 2x12 the 1x12 cab I have the single blackheart speaker in is a 14x14x12 closed cab. Not the blackheart cab!.. . " I know it's only Rock N Roll... but I like it"

Wow that is hard to read, and this is from months ago, so I doubt it makes any diffrence now.

Thanks for the Necro bump

And my grandmas eggs taste better because she uses a cast iron skillet and bacon grease, just so you know
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:06 AM   #37
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yep but it still the most factual description of the blackheart speaker in the whole thread...good things do come to those who wait. 20 odd posts but no one addressed what the characteristics of the speaker were. I guess you wouldn't buy a 58 les paul cuz its old?. Only reason I posted is cuz no one seemed to actually have played thru it or had any other eminence speakers to compare it with..I have, I did.. I bought the blackheart speaker myself cuz it was cheap...ended up being a bargain after 45 yrs of playin .. I know a little bout sumthin and maybe I can guess the rest

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Old 03-04-2013, 08:22 AM   #38
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yep but it still the most factual description of the blackheart speaker in the whole thread...good things do come to those who wait. 20 odd posts but no one addressed what the characteristics of the speaker were. I guess you wouldn't buy a 58 les paul cuz its old?. Only reason I posted is cuz no one seemed to actually have played thru it or had any other eminence speakers to compare it with..I have, I did.. I bought the blackheart speaker myself cuz it was cheap...ended up being a bargain after 45 yrs of playin .. I know a little bout sumthin and maybe I can guess the rest

I'm not saying your wrong in your description of the speaker. I have heard the stock Jet City Speaker was based off the Eminence V12, but I find that hard to believe (sounds pretty diffrent to me. I have never used the Blackheart, but I have heard good things about the speaker and cabinet.
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