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Old 11-06-2012, 01:36 AM   #1
King-For-A-Day
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recording-problems

hi UG-guys, my band has a little problem with doing some own recordings. We're writing and playing now our own stuff for a year and wanted to do the songs by recording first drums, bass, guitars etc. Now that's the point: as we where starting with the drums last weekend our drummer was not able to play in our first song. He could play this no question, but he didn't even know the structure of the song without guitars. That was very disappointing for all of us because in the middle of the song he just stops even if it sounded good but - he doesn't know what part comes next. Other problem is that he seems to be unable to play to the metronome this weekend we are going to do a new attempt but the two other bandmates and me don't know what to do then, because he gets pretty fast pissed if the record doesn't work or we were criticizing that problems have you any hints for us what to do now? Sorry for no backspaces was writing that with my phone
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:40 AM   #2
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Play guitar/sing along with him.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:56 AM   #3
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Try recording the guitar to a metronome as a guide to give him an indication of the parts. You can always record a second take over the drum tracks.

Can you do the bass guitar at the same time? Will that help him identify what part comes next? Can you record the whole band together? Do you have to record each istrument separately?
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:25 AM   #4
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Record the guitars and vocals to a click track and/or each other as a scratch track. Let the drummer play to the scratch track through a set of good closed back studio headphones.

Or get another drummer. [insert rimshot here] Just kidding.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:40 AM   #5
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Plug headphones into your amp and have him wear the headphones while you play the song.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:57 AM   #6
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As suggested, record the other parts first and use that as a backing track. Also maybe each section of the song could be recorded separately.

For future recordings though, make sure all band members know the song inside out and can play accurately without relying on the band, and everyone should be able to play to a metronome. It'll make improvements on live performances too.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:18 AM   #7
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This is a very common issue.You could try recording drums,bass,and rhythm guitar at the same time.Then you could add vocals,leads,etc.Or you could re-record the drums using the first track as a guide that you would later get rid of.No drummer will be able to play a complete song from memory without somebody else playing with them.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:04 AM   #8
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Like the others have said, record a rough scratchtrack with the guitar first then have him listen to that while drumming.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #9
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Record a scratch track, play over the scratch track.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:07 AM   #10
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Hello (Back on PC) and thank you for your advices, I'm happy it's not a problem that just our drummer has.
Well we have just a pretty small Mixer so we can't record all instruments at the same time - not enough channels
So I think I'm going to record a raw tape of my guitar-line with a loud metronome metronome so he can drum to that on the recording.
Do you think this will work well?
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King-For-A-Day
Hello (Back on PC) and thank you for your advices, I'm happy it's not a problem that just our drummer has.
Well we have just a pretty small Mixer so we can't record all instruments at the same time - not enough channels
So I think I'm going to record a raw tape of my guitar-line with a loud metronome metronome so he can drum to that on the recording.
Do you think this will work well?


Go for it. The key is for him to listen to it through good headphones so you don't hear it in the drum recording.

Also you may want to consider getting an interface with enough channels for all your drum mics to record them together. Either that or playing electronic drums and recording it in MIDI. Then you can use something like Studio Drummer or Superior Drummer 2.0 to turn the MIDI data into good tones. You might be able to buy a used Roland TD-9 with mesh drums for less than what a set of good mics, a capable multi-track audio interface, and room treatments would cost. Or you can just get a set of MIDI triggers and a Drum MIDI Interface to convert the existing drum kit to MIDI.

Food for thought.

By the way, they were playing The Scorpions on the radio on my way home from work today and I thought of you guys.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:07 AM   #12
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You could record the scratch track(I didn't know what it was called before) with one mic on one track nearer the amps than the drums.Then have the drummer record his keeper track while listening to the scratch track on headphones.The idea is to create a track for the drummer so he doesn't get lost or confused.Quality of the scratch track isn't important.This is a technique used by professionals a lot.You are just modifying it for home recording purposes.I think this is much easier than the metronome method.You will find out whats best when you guys go at it again.When I got out of high school,me and two of my bandmates enrolled in a recording class at a community college.The final exam was making your own recording.We got three songs recorded in a modern studio by a pro engineer for the cost of the course X 3.Best deal ever.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #13
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Hello guys,
so we are trying to record this weekend again a few songs. I think we'll do it with a scratch track or record first the guitars but in any case our drummer will get a track to listen to For now I want to thank you telling me that's s pretty common problem and you gave me a lot of motivation.
jetwash69 I guess currently we're not able to get a drum interface because our band cash is pretty low but a very good hint for the future. If you thought about The Scorpions, did they have similar problems with recordings?
I will post again after the first tracks are done and tell you how it worked
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King-For-A-Day
...If you thought about The Scorpions, did they have similar problems with recordings?...


Actually I don't know much about them other than they became some of the most respected players in hard rock. And they were one of my favorite bands growing up in the 70s and 80s.

But what made the connection in my mind was the German connection. If they did have those kinds of problems, then they certainly overcame them with a vengeance! And you guys probably will too.

Good luck and have fun! Let us know when you post the recordings somewhere.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:30 PM   #15
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When I'm recording, I write an outline of the song with shorthand of the different parts and how many times each is repeated before moving on to the next one. Having a road map of what you're playing next makes continuity between takes and between players much easier.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaco
When I'm recording, I write an outline of the song with shorthand of the different parts and how many times each is repeated before moving on to the next one. Having a road map of what you're playing next makes continuity between takes and between players much easier.


I'm personally under the impression that if you don't know the song, you shouldn't be in the studio. Having a road map just means you don't know the roads.

For example earlier this year I played a gig at short notice, all original stuff, I put in the hard work and memoried everything whilst the other guys used chord sheets.

Fast forward 6 months and I was called in to lay down my guitar parts for the same songs. The other guys had a hard time getting everything together with the chord sheets, I just walked in once everyone was done and did my parts without sheets in one take. Easy. I'd memorised them 6 months ago and the others still need road maps to find their way.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:13 AM   #17
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Alan- It's less a case of not knowing the song- it's more a case of keeping things consistent between takes. Granted, it's a little different for me- I'm the one doing the writing, so at some point (usually when I'm getting ready to record the scratch track) I have to decide what's out, what's in and what exact order it's in. It sounds like we're recording for different reasons, at different parts of the process.

I'd agree with your sentiment, though. It sounds like the drummer in this situation really wasn't ready to be in the studio.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:44 AM   #18
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Hi guys
well we started on saturday with recording the guitars after out drummer couldn't play just to the metronome. On Sunday afternoon we had all the guitar parts recorded I think that was helpfull for the drummer to know where he is in the song but he still wasn't able to play one song until its end. We even tried to let him play the song in two parts but that wasn't possible neither.
Then we talked together what the problem was because it took four hours for just the intro. When I asked him if he plays to a metronome when hes alone in the roome he said no - and he even doesn't practice the songs on his own.
The other Bandmates feel pretty low now too
Have you any more hints?
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:07 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlaco
Alan- It's less a case of not knowing the song- it's more a case of keeping things consistent between takes. Granted, it's a little different for me- I'm the one doing the writing, so at some point (usually when I'm getting ready to record the scratch track) I have to decide what's out, what's in and what exact order it's in.


So basically you haven't finished writing the song before you record it. If you had, you wouldn't need to write it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:18 PM   #20
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Alan- I'm not sure why you feel the need to attack my methods. You seem to believe that the arrangement is sacred and a song should be played the same way every time. Fine. I don't. Since they're my songs, if a chance to improve it comes along, it's going to change. That's also fine.

TS- If he's not practicing, nothing you can do is going to make him able to play well enough to record. He might be able to fake a gig with you guys but unless you can motivate him to work the songs on his own he's just going to be wasting all of your time. Get him to practice, or replace him. Or threaten to replace him if he doesn't practice, and follow through. Not an easy solution, but a simple one.
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