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Old 10-19-2012, 12:58 PM   #1
Suttam
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Short question about scales.

Hi there, guys!


I have a question for you all, which is about playing scales on guitar. I know the concept of scales and intervals and how they use notes that fits into your playing when playing over chords and so. But I'm a bit confused on how to learn to apply these over the fretboard.


How do you learn scales properly? Should I make up shapes from the notes of each individual scale and just play these as I like, or should I learn the formulas of the scales and play them from the root note?


Are there any ways to divide and conquer this mess of notes?
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #2
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You should listen
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #3
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Learn the minor pentatonic scale in A to start with, then apply the same patterns in any key...
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Old 10-19-2012, 02:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suttam
How do you learn scales properly? Should I make up shapes from the notes of each individual scale and just play these as I like, or should I learn the formulas of the scales and play them from the root note?


Your long term goal is to be able to make music with these scales.

Most people start with some sort of "shape" on the fretboard. However, it's very important to note that you don't just "play them as you like," - all notes in a scale are not created equal. They all do different things - they all are words with different meanings, so to speak.

So it's fine if you learn them as box shapes so long as you work on your ear and develop your ability to hear the relationship of each individual note to the tonal center.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by steven seagull
You should listen

Not sure what you're trying to say with this reply. But thanks for contributing?

To the OP:
Sure, write up shapes. But know the relationships between the notes and which notes they are. You don't want to be stuck in the "I'm playing in A, so I'm going to put my 1st finger on the 5th fret and that is where I will be."

You want to be able to play the scales up and back using any combination of notes on a string.
For the sake of not writing up tabs to show you... You should be able to play an A scale with 3 notes on the E string, 3 notes on the A string and 2 notes on the D string (3, 3, 2) Then be able to play 4, 4, 1. Maybe even all 8 on the E string. Then all 8 on the A string.
You see what I'm saying?

Don't get stuck in one position, thats what makes players scale grinders and stops them from making music. Being able to see the whole fretboard as a way to use the notes of a scale rather than some 1 or 2 octave locked-in position is what helps you to see things differently and create music. Learning scales the way I described is just one way to do just that.
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suttam
How do you learn scales properly? Should I make up shapes from the notes of each individual scale and just play these as I like, or should I learn the formulas of the scales and play them from the root note?
Every scale makes a "shape" on the fret board. But if you move the shape up or down, the "scale" is in a different key.

So, the mistake that many people make, is only learning the scale "shape". It's a shortcut that can spell disaster for an overarching fluent understanding of music.

If say I , (arbitrarily), wanted to learn the scale for the key of E major, I could only learn the "shape" in a given position, and I suppose, get away with it. But, I should learn the name of the notes in the key, the names of every note under every finger in the shape, and how to recognize the "key signature", on a written piece of music.

Delve into basic musical theory, by learning the chromatic scale, the note spacing patterns for forming a major or minor key, why a note is termed sharp or flat, and what chords are generated by the scale.

The easiest way to learn a key, is to start from the root, and go with the "do, re, mi, fa ,so, la, ti, do. But, keep in mind every key has a relative minor, and its scale starts on the 6th note of the major scale. Musical melodies don't always simply encompass, "do to do", but can start, and possibly end, on any note within the key. So, if you know the names of notes in the key, you could start on any note in the key, and end on, or extend to any octave of the key, not just the basic shape of a scale.

Training by playing "shapes" attends to the physical side of playing, and it shouldn't be disregarded. But, when you know the names of the notes on the board, and the notes of the key you're playing, you won't be forced into playing shapes, you can play all over the fret board, and know why you're doing it.

Last edited by Captaincranky : 10-20-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:37 AM   #7
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^ I don't think it's necessary to know the names of the notes but you have to know how different notes sound. On guitar it's easier to think: "I put my fingers here and it sounds like this." I mean, of course you must know the intervals but the note names aren't necessary for improvisation. When you play fast, you can't think in note names. Of course you must know the note names when you play chords, but when you improvise... It's more important to know what sound you get when you fret a note. And by playing scale shapes and listening at the same time makes you remember different sounds easier.

You will always play in a scale "shape" even though you weren't thinking it as a shape. They are just the easiest positions to find the notes.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:05 AM   #8
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I use the mode patterns to navigate. Theres 7 patterns they span the whole fret board. All 5 pentoinc patterns are there. just take out the B and F =M2 & m6 you get pentonic minor. arpeggiating chords in these scales really helped me navigate better.

A B C D E F G A
B C D E F G A B
C D E F G A B C and so on very simple easy to remember.

this can be applied to any key

And its very helpful once you've learned all the note names.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Of Suede
Not sure what you're trying to say with this reply.


he's saying

Quote:
Sure, write up shapes. But know the relationships between the notes and which notes they are. You don't want to be stuck in the "I'm playing in A, so I'm going to put my 1st finger on the 5th fret and that is where I will be."

You want to be able to play the scales up and back using any combination of notes on a string.
For the sake of not writing up tabs to show you... You should be able to play an A scale with 3 notes on the E string, 3 notes on the A string and 2 notes on the D string (3, 3, 2) Then be able to play 4, 4, 1. Maybe even all 8 on the E string. Then all 8 on the A string.
You see what I'm saying?

Don't get stuck in one position, thats what makes players scale grinders and stops them from making music. Being able to see the whole fretboard as a way to use the notes of a scale rather than some 1 or 2 octave locked-in position is what helps you to see things differently and create music. Learning scales the way I described is just one way to do just that.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #10
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No. You said that. He made a snarky 3 word reply to someone who was asking a legitimate question and contributed nothing to the thread.
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sht up u flthy librl foogit stfu u soo mad n butthurdt ur ass is an analpocolypse cuz ur so gay "my ass hrts so mcuh" - u. your rectally vexed n anlly angushed lolo go bck 2 asslnd lolol
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #11
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who declared you the king of suede anyway

i'm challenging your rule
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Of Suede
No. You said that. He made a snarky 3 word reply to someone who was asking a legitimate question and contributed nothing to the thread.
Are you even allowed to use the term,
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"snarky, 3 word reply"
in reference to a moderator?
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Of Suede
No. You said that. He made a snarky 3 word reply to someone who was asking a legitimate question and contributed nothing to the thread.

Actually "You should listen" is the correct answer to the question. By listening to the notes you play you'll learn to use them well. If you have no idea about how different notes sound, you really can't play what you hear in your head.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:08 PM   #14
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Sure, that works if you're able to learn in a vacuum.

But for normal people, learning scales helps to center around the "right" notes and gives a launching point into what you're talking about.
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sht up u flthy librl foogit stfu u soo mad n butthurdt ur ass is an analpocolypse cuz ur so gay "my ass hrts so mcuh" - u. your rectally vexed n anlly angushed lolo go bck 2 asslnd lolol
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Of Suede
No. You said that. He made a snarky 3 word reply to someone who was asking a legitimate question and contributed nothing to the thread.

It was an efficient reply, aimed at getting the thread starter to look at what he was doing and try to identify his mistakes for himself... If someone is struggling with scales but only references shapes and formulas but doesn't once mention sound it's pretty clear where the problem lies - too much reading, too much playing, not enough listening. However I find there's much more of a sense of achievement of you manage to answer your own question after a bit of gentle prodding rather than have someone spoon feed you an answer.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:34 PM   #16
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who declared you the king of suede anyway

I know man. The Kind of suede is clearly Mr Perkins

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:13 PM   #17
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I want to be the King of Cashmere
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #18
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hey suede you need to change your name it's causing discussion that's irrelevant to the thread and useless
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:29 PM   #19
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I always read his name as Kind of Suede, and that opens up a whole new can of worms. Is he a different type of suede, or is he sort of like suede, you just don't know.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:35 PM   #20
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I always read his name as Kind of Suede, and that opens up a whole new can of worms. Is he a different type of suede, or is he sort of like suede, you just don't know.


like pleather?

puede?
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