Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Electric Guitar
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 10-24-2012, 09:30 PM   #41
DanTheHobbit
Possible Homer Sexual
 
DanTheHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Corea
My analogy is quick food versus cuisine, specifically Epiphone versus Gibson. Epiphone can create decent instruments, even considering the price range. The two Epi LP Customs I've owned and modded rank with the Gibson LP Studio I had. That's my experience and based on the initial inquiry.

Furthermore, to extend Hatebreeder's (Misfits? Nice) statement, not everyone has a cheaper alternative readily available. For burritos, I'd have Santana's around if I were in San Diego, and I'd have Chipotle in various other locations. Maybe the initial poster doesn't have that luxury.

And how is it false economy, T00DEEPBLUE? I'm making an analogy that's rough but fitting. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize.

Anyway, cheers.
__________________
I am a fake mountain.
DanTheHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 09:35 PM   #42
H4T3BR33D3R
UG's Poison Mist
 
H4T3BR33D3R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The laaaaaaand of the rising sun
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheHobbit
My analogy is quick food versus cuisine, specifically Epiphone versus Gibson. Epiphone can create decent instruments, even considering the price range. The two Epi LP Customs I've owned and modded rank with the Gibson LP Studio I had. That's my experience and based on the initial inquiry.

Furthermore, to extend Hatebreeder's (Misfits? Nice) statement, not everyone has a cheaper alternative readily available. For burritos, I'd have Santana's around if I were in San Diego, and I'd have Chipotle in various other locations. Maybe the initial poster doesn't have that luxury.

And how is it false economy, T00DEEPBLUE? I'm making an analogy that's rough but fitting. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize.

Anyway, cheers.



Yeah but the lower end Epiphones for the most part arent even half the guitars that an Epi standard is. My point was that there's other options in your budget and you shouldn't just stick to name brands. Especially at that price range. There could be a local company that makes a killer budget guitar. He shouldn't have to settle for McDonald's.




As for the username, I wish it was Misfits but it's a Children of Bodom reference
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by eGraham
I'm not artsy at all. At least not in the visual sense.

But, I did just eat some pizza so I am quite fartsy




Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelfox
Dude i like rap and stuff. Im a furry and I also have a wolf plush with a hole that i use at times.


Only at times, though.
H4T3BR33D3R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 09:52 PM   #43
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheHobbit
And how is it false economy, T00DEEPBLUE? I'm making an analogy that's rough but fitting. If I'm in the wrong, I apologize.

Anyway, cheers.

I've never played an Epiphone that sounded or played as good as a Gibson. That's enough reason for my to buy a Gibson over an Epiphone. It doesn't make any sense not to given the choice.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.

Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE : 10-24-2012 at 09:54 PM.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:14 PM   #44
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Right, but he's asking about Epiphones.
Here's my thought: get a nice Epiphone - play a few. They do exist, and again, one good guitar is better than two junkers. I'm not sure how we're defining "lower end" here, but I have two Epi's under $500, and they are far from firewood.
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:16 PM   #45
T00DEEPBLUE
Freaky Alien Genotype
 
T00DEEPBLUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
I was answering his question in which he was regarding both Epiphone and Gibson.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Bonta
If you want to follow your gut, you must first acquire a gut.
T00DEEPBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:27 PM   #46
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
We really just need the Epiphone VS Gibson sticky thread.
I also didn't see where the OP was asking about Gibsons. It seems no matter what the question, if the word Epiphone is mentioned, we inevitably end up comparing them to Gibsons.

Last edited by SteveHOC : 10-24-2012 at 11:37 PM.
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 03:13 AM   #47
samuraigoomba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Well I hope what we can all agree on is that the guy asking the question shouldn't even be thinking about low-end epiphones. It doesn't cost much more (if you go used) to get a standard or SG400, and there's a better chance the guitar won't be a piece of garbage.

But really, I kinda don't see all the fuss about Epiphone. There are so many companies that make the les paul and SG "style" that you hardly need to limit a guitar search to Epiphone. I guess it's because epiphones are bloody everywhere in the used and new markets.
samuraigoomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 01:46 AM   #48
DanTheHobbit
Possible Homer Sexual
 
DanTheHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: South Corea
Gotcha both. And to be fair, I brought up the Epiphone/Gibson issue not to compare the two production brands as a whole but in the confines of a relatively similar price range. I stand by my comment that my two Epi LP customs were close enough (cosmetics aside) to the one Gibson LP Studio that I have owned, which is again based on my limited experience. At my old job, we only ever got cheap Epi's and standard Gibsons, so I didn't have an abundance of opportunities to evaluate one over the other in a fair manner. And here I am, continuing the Epi/Gibson junk. Sorry.

But yes, the TS should try to play around with middle-to-higher-end Epiphones and similar alternatives. The guitar world is more than what's seen in Musician's Friend (or whatever similar publication there is in a given country).
__________________
I am a fake mountain.
DanTheHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 08:49 AM   #49
th!nk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
An odd first post, but I have a little related experience, I guess.

Basically, I have an Epiphone LP Studio. Don't remember the exact year but it's recent and came with Alnico Pickups - which sounded horrible, muffled and muddy, total ass. Basically, and this goes for any budget guitar - factor new pickups into the cost. GFS being my main recommendation but I'm sure there are others. Anyway playability it wasn't that bad. It's not as good as my Greco LP (a late 80's - early 90's fairly cheap LP Deluxe copy that plays like a dream but weighs a tonne) or my DeArmond M-72 (plays great). Gibsonwise I have an Eye (that red thing everyone sane person hates) and there's a very noticeable difference there (plays about the same as the greco) - though it has some issues with temperature changes it seems.

The Epi plays about as well as my (modded/beloved) Yamaha Pacifica 112 without feeling or sounding anywhere as nice, to me, at least.


The kicker here, though, is that the above guitars were at most $250 more than the Epiphone - The Greco being of roughly similar price (though the pickups are just a little microphonic it seems, they do sound real nice - way better than the Epi's anyway) and directly outperforming it.

So my personal advice is to hunt around for something better in the price range or slightly above - especially if you can afford two Epi's in which case you'd absolutely be better off with one better guitar.

Last I checked Agile were the way to go for cheap gibson-styled guitar with good build quality at good prices, unless something has changed lately.

'course, with Epi's you can generally try them in-store, unlike hunting for bargains online where you could get a dud or whatever (though I've always done well).



I saw Jay Turser mentioned on the first page, I had one of their guitars (I don't remember the model but I can find out if anyone wants) a while back and the licensed floyd rose actually worked really well, but the guitar as a whole sounded tinny and nasty to me (even a pickup swap can only do so much if the guitar itself doesn't resonate well), so I sold it. It also had one slightly uneven fret and didn't come with enough springs in the trem assembly to support anything more than really, really light strings (I forget the gauge, but it only had two springs). Still, it was a decent guitar.
When I was doing my pre-buy research I got the impression that like a lot of similar cheap brands they're a bit hit and miss.


Short version: Don't buy two cheap epi's, shop around for something better in your price range, Agile probably being a good place to start unless things have changed with them in the past year and a half or so, and also look at the second hand market and/or for more obscure gems. Always expect to have to replace the pickups on any cheap guitar.

Last edited by th!nk : 10-28-2012 at 06:10 AM.
th!nk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 05:51 AM   #50
Paddynbob
Registered User
 
Paddynbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Slash recorded Appetite for Destruction on a LP copy...
Paddynbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 06:03 AM   #51
GaryBillington
Grumpier than normal.
 
GaryBillington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Trow Vegas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddynbob
Slash recorded Appetite for Destruction on a LP copy...

Maybe, but it was a copy made by a pro luthier, not a cheap mass market copy. There's a BIG difference there.
__________________
.
Gibson LP Studio x2, SG Special Plus, Midtown Custom
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm > TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30 210 + GS112VE cab
Jet City JCA22H
GaryBillington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 06:16 AM   #52
innertom
Registered Sex Offender
 
innertom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
i have a epi LP studio. its not bad for the price. if your willing to try more obscure brands you will find much nicer guitars for the price.

youd be much better off trying to save abit, then sell your guitar and buy a nice one instead of cheaping out
innertom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 06:41 AM   #53
MegadethFan18
Judge Shredd
 
MegadethFan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Like I died and went to heaven but they realised it wasn't my time so they sent me to a brewery
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryBillington
Maybe, but it was a copy made by a pro luthier, not a cheap mass market copy. There's a BIG difference there.


It was made by Jim Foot, who owned Music Works in Redondo Beach. He says in his book he says he was given it by Alan at the start of the recording sessions. To get the sound he tried out 8 amps before he found the right one, which he just says is a Marshall someone had customized.

There is more to his sound on Appetite than that though, He also says:

"It just goes to show how volatile recording is: the size and shape of a room, the soundboard used in recording, as well as the molecular quality of the air all play a part - humidity and temperature affect a recording tremendously. Where the guitar and amp is placed, how it is miked; all of these things can drastically influence the result"

Then he basically says he's never been able to recreate the Appetite Sound.
MegadethFan18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #54
CheapGuitarMan
Registered User
 
CheapGuitarMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Lots of talk here of buying cheap Epiphone guitars and then modding them until they sound better. But just installing a good set of pickups can add $100 to $150 or more to the price of the original guitar, so what's the point of that? The modded guitar might sound better, but it's still what is was - cheap and always going to be worth less than what you paid.

At my local GC there are always plenty of used Epi LP standards or better being traded in and for sale in the $275 to $350 range. Many of these are very nice guitars that (occasionally) have even been well set up before they were used and subsequently traded in. Low end Epiphones are about like Squier Affinity guitars - Chinese made and strictly entry level. Not that China can't or doesn't make some very nice guitars - these just aren't in that class.

conĚsenĚsus (kn-snss) n.
1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.
2. General agreement or accord

When you say "general consensus" you are really saying "general general opinion," which is totally redundant.


Sorry, I'm an English major and I can't help it.
CheapGuitarMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 12:09 PM   #55
W4RP1G
Please, call me Pig.
 
W4RP1G's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
My old Epiphone Banjo was pretty awesome. It was made in China and was far better than my Korean made Alvarez banjo. However, I believe there are better options than Epiphone when it comes to guitars, since there are so many guitar manufacturers. Always get the best for your money! Brand names mean absolutely nothing, except for when you are blindly buying online.

Basically, go play a bunch of guitars. If one jumps out at you as being "better" get it. If it happens to be an Epiphone, then so be it. If it's a Gibson Studio, then so be it. But don't buy something that you aren't completely happy with jest because of what's on the headstock.

And also, if you need something on the headstock, then get it because you probably won't be happy with anything else. But don't try to convince yourself that you need any brand to be happy.
W4RP1G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 11:13 PM   #56
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapGuitarMan
Lots of talk here of buying cheap Epiphone guitars and then modding them until they sound better. But just installing a good set of pickups can add $100 to $150 or more to the price of the original guitar, so what's the point of that? The modded guitar might sound better, but it's still what is was - cheap and always going to be worth less than what you paid.

At my local GC there are always plenty of used Epi LP standards or better being traded in and for sale in the $275 to $350 range. Many of these are very nice guitars that (occasionally) have even been well set up before they were used and subsequently traded in. Low end Epiphones are about like Squier Affinity guitars - Chinese made and strictly entry level. Not that China can't or doesn't make some very nice guitars - these just aren't in that class.

conĚsenĚsus (kn-snss) n.
1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.
2. General agreement or accord

When you say "general consensus" you are really saying "general general opinion," which is totally redundant.


Sorry, I'm an English major and I can't help it.


Solid point - and resale on modded "lower end" guitars is pretty abusive to the seller. There are some solid MIC Epiphones out there these days, but they fall in the $400-500 range and probably aren't the "lower" tiers of the Epiphones the OP is asking about.

Also, the poster didn't explicitly state which variation of the term "consensus" he had landed on; thus he could be asking for a "general group opinion" instead of your interpretation. I, too, am an English major (or rather holder of two English degrees )
We should take a vote on which version of "consensus" the OP meant
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 11:30 PM   #57
samuraigoomba
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapGuitarMan
Lots of talk here of buying cheap Epiphone guitars and then modding them until they sound better. But just installing a good set of pickups can add $100 to $150 or more to the price of the original guitar, so what's the point of that? The modded guitar might sound better, but it's still what is was - cheap and always going to be worth less than what you paid.

This astute observation of yours is my big problem with a lot of UG user reviews. People review cheapo guitars like the LP Studio and talk about how they spent 100 bucks putting in good pups to make the guitar sound less crappy. But... What's the point of that? Buying a $150 guitar and putting $150 of mods into it is a much worse deal than buying a used guitar for $300 that will hold its value.

There seem to be a mindset among some players that buying a cheap guitar and upgrading it > spending more and getting a quality product that needs no upgrading. These people are setting themselves up to be ripped off if they ever plan to sell their guitars. If not, well, I hope they're satisfied with the sound. Customizing a guitar is like customizing a car. A lot of people would rather buy the one with the stock factory colors/parts.
samuraigoomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 11:44 PM   #58
SteveHOC
Used Register
 
SteveHOC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
There is something to be said for the enjoyment some get out of modding guitars. It's also nice to learn how to do simple fixes, and doing your own mods teaches you that very quickly.
That said, and this has been brought up recently in another thread, "upgrading" certain parts on a guitar can also turn off potential buyers. I don't like to idea of buying a guitar from a stranger who has monkeyed around inside and possibly made some major blunders - I prefer the guitar remain stock, or at least for the buyer to tell me that it has.
The OP should look at the PRS SE singlecut, though that may have been brought up already. Those are pretty slick guitars for the money.
SteveHOC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 12:13 AM   #59
th!nk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Even great stock guitars can take some tweaking to make "right" for an individual, my friends. Epiphones aren't what I'd recommend for doing it, but with the right bargain buy (which can take a helluva lot of hunting) - you can get something that'll play as well as a Gibson without spending anywhere near that much.

The main reason Pickups are usually swapped is because electronics are supposedly where a lot of cheap-ish manufacturers skimp on things. At least from my experience, pickups often do need an upgrade on lower end guitars, but even on higher-end models, you may need some aftermarket pickups to get what you want - I mean not many guitars come with Nailbomb calibre pickups and even GuitarFetish pickups can give most stock pickups from good/great guitars a run for their money (YMMV, of course) - so while not an upgrade, per se, they're a good option if you're after something different than stock (for example, I usually like a humbucker sized P90 in the neck).

Of course, effect on resale value should be taken into account, however if you keep the stock pickups around, and you're not a total loser with the solder, swapping them back isn't a big deal, and when selling you can always include a picture of your solderwork to make sure buyers know you haven't messed anything up. Still, that is definitely something to account for.
th!nk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 12:21 PM   #60
Paddynbob
Registered User
 
Paddynbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
The way i see it, its all subjective. If a ú2000 Gibson sounds best to you great. If its a ú150 epi, thats great too.
Paddynbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:44 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.