Ignore

Ive been writing songs in the last year and kinda getting a hang on it.
I usually just find chord progressions or movements that i like and think are different.
Then i record them, and find a melody to go over with a second guitar layer, then i work on counter melodies and basslines.
I'm not a singer, i like vocals, but i just can't sing, i sing to myself when i learn songs or play blues but I wouldn't sing on stage because my voice just sucks.

I like the songs i write and they are usually normal/fast paced indierock songs with some jazzy and bluesy progressions and parts.
The melody is always played by a guitar and would not adopt to being sung.
I like the sound of them and frankly think that they don't need vocals, it's not complex music but quite catchy.

What do you guys think about that in general?
and
Is it a instant no go without vocals, in a sense that it won't appeal to a audience out of principle?

Nietsche

Cutting out the vocals means cutting out the interest which comes from the lyrical content*. That means that all of the interest in your piece has to come from the musical material itself. Whether or not that works out depends on the style of music you're writing in. I can't speak for anyone else, and I know it's probably brash to judge without having listened to any of your work, but I'd say right away that you should either get a vocalist or write in a genre other than 'indie rock' (Preferably classical or jazz), otherwise your material won't appeal to anyone.

__________________

supersac

theres aot of music that doesnt have vocals if its good music its good music

having said that though alot of people like having vocals becasue they like having something to sing along to
personally i like alot of music without vocals instrumentals and clasial and jazz and such

maybe post some examples of what you write somewhere and see how people like it

__________________
a youtube link?
maybe you should click on it
http://www.youtube.com/user/supersac69


i sound like one...im secretly a huge dick

my bands soundcloud
http://soundcloud.com/thenativetongues

Ignore

yeah thats what im thinking, as long as its good music it doesnt really matter.
I dont post any of my stuff because its just not done, ive been working on several songs in the past and they're all at around 90%

Nietsche, i think we might have a different understanding of the term indie rock or something, does meolodic guitar rock music that doesnt use alot of distortion mean that the musicial material used in it is automatically not able to appeal to anyone ?

AmalgamOfMeat

It's not a song if there's no singing.

macashmack

If your audience is normal people, then no lyrics means no audience.
In my experience, for the most part, only musicians tend to be able to listen to music without lyrics that goes on for longer than 20 seconds. So, having half a minute intro is a good thing, having a 4 minute song with no lyrics is not going to impress anyone other than people with trained ears.

__________________


Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

AlanHB

Find a singer TS.

__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.

AeolianWolf

most of this thread contains matters of opinion, but they're still mostly correct on a larger scale. that said, there are only two objective truths in this thread thus far, and they are as follows:





if you want to write instrumental rock songs with appeal, you'd better not only be able to play well, you'd better know your shit, and i mean REALLY know your shit. you'd better know how to construct interesting material, and how to derive further material from that. your playing technique had better be damn good, and i'm not talking about running scales, i'm talking about composing melodies and working from that - composing counterpoints (perhaps in other instruments, but keep in mind that the guitar is capable of producing more than a single melody), variations on a theme, or many, many other techniques related to style and form.

if you want to write instrumental rock for the sake of writing instrumental rock, just go ahead and do it. don't let limitations stop you, and don't concern yourself with the advice given (but do learn from it, regardless).

whichever your choice, i can safely say you're probably not going to get it the first few times.

here's a little personal insight: in my opinion, the two most important tools you can use to create interest in your music are repetition and variation, and the two need to be in a great balance. music that has too much variation tends to be more popular among experienced musicians (see: some jazz), and even then there are those among us who don't find it as pleasant as others. music with too much repetition tends to be popular with novice musicians (usually because it's easier to write/perform) and a much larger audience, because very little effort goes into knowing the piece (see: pop music). now, i love both jazz and pop, but the key to really good music is a fantastic balance of these two concepts. everything should be related somehow (unless a certain effect is to be employed).

if you can utilize that concept, you'll be able to write some good music.

__________________

| Facebook (personal) | Facebook (music) | SoundCloud | Instagram |

HotspurJr

There's a lot of interest in music without vocals - particularly if you look in the world of soundtrack music for movies, TV, and video games.

But if you're talking about popular music, stuff that gets played on the radio, that people pay to go see live, that sort of stuff ...

While there are occasional instrumental songs that succeed in that arena, they are rare indeed.

So if you don't want to learn to sing (and don't assume you're no good at it if you're never tried to be good at it - taken lessons, etc) then find a singer who you have similar tastes with and who you get along with and work with them.

AeolianWolf

absolutely, and a lot of it is beautiful, but there's a biiiiiig difference between that music and classical music (and other instrumental genres). the difference being that the music composed for movies, TV, and video games is meant to provide a background to something going on. even if nobody is talking (take the introductory movie to FFX, for example, where "to zanarkand" played, and while it was a very nice piece of music, it was composed to complement the scenes in the clip), it's meant to provide background. classical works and works like TS is aspiring to write are complete in and of themselves, and are particularly meant to be listened to and enjoyed without any complement. while much of the fantastic music composed for the outlets you're talking about is complete in and of itself, it wasn't intended to be perceived that way (at least not overtly).

__________________

| Facebook (personal) | Facebook (music) | SoundCloud | Instagram |

Hail

__________________

fenderbassist12

A lot of music I enjoy has no vocals. If you have heard of four80east they are a jazz group out of Canada that just do layering type music. I feel like if you can't sing well, try to get your melodies across on guitar. The best leads are the ones that feel like you can sing them. Vocals add another element that only needs to be there if you don't feel like your instruments can it get across.

__________________
Gear:
Musicman Stingray 4 string HH
Warmoth Custom with whammy
Hohner HW 220 Acoustic Guitar
Acoustic B200 combo
Tech 21 Sansamp Para Driver

Can I have JR. Western Bacon Chi. I'm trying to watch my figure. Junior.

AeolianWolf

that's a very restrictive way of thinking. "use vocals when your instruments can't get the message across."

there are many things vocals can do that instruments cannot do. it's not a matter of feeling like one's instruments can get it across - it's about musical sense (which i find more and more musicians these days have less and less of...).

__________________

| Facebook (personal) | Facebook (music) | SoundCloud | Instagram |

fenderbassist12

That's true I understated the power of vocals. But if you are not feeling confident in your own vocals you don't necessarily need them in a song.

__________________
Gear:
Musicman Stingray 4 string HH
Warmoth Custom with whammy
Hohner HW 220 Acoustic Guitar
Acoustic B200 combo
Tech 21 Sansamp Para Driver

Can I have JR. Western Bacon Chi. I'm trying to watch my figure. Junior.

AlanHB

Like it or not, most people will judge a band's quality on the quality of the vocalist. If a vocalist isn't present, then they'll likely not even pay enough attention to even bother whether a band is good or not.

Whilst one could point to the top 40 and say "well I'm not making that type of music", it's not about type. Stuff is on the top 40 because it sells. It's pretty clear, the average listener wants a vocalist present or they loose attention. Even me, a guitarist, prefers songs with a vocalist.

__________________
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.

AeolianWolf

that's more fair to say, and you added the qualifier "necessarily", so it's all good.

personally, i can do well as a jazz singer or a pop singer, but when it comes to rock and metal, i'm usually out of the loop. i think my best move in those situations is to feature a singer on a few tracks (unless i decided it was best without vocals, which can sometimes be an effective solution).



a lot of good points here - mostly the first sentence about quality, and the part about "stuff is on the top 40 because it sells".

__________________

| Facebook (personal) | Facebook (music) | SoundCloud | Instagram |

HotspurJr

I'm curious who here has ever gone and seen a show which consistently entirely of instrumental rock. Anyone?

Don't get me wrong, I can think of some great instrumental rock tracks - Cliffs of Dover or Landscapes or who knows. But in a way I almost think those songs sort of make my point. How many of you have even heard of Landscapes, which is the best instrumental rock song I've heard in a long time. And I can't help but think that Eric Johnson could have been so much more successful (not just a niche artist) if he had found a singer he could work with. I mean, Jimmy Page is great, but he's BETTER when he's working with Robert Plant.

But I think it's important to look at what your goals are, and to look at what sort of music out there gets what sort of audience.

And if you're trying to connect with an audience, you really do need vocals. If you can't point to an artist who is playing the sort of shows you want to play who's doing it without vocals, that's got to be something of a wake-up call, doesn't it?

That is to say, if you're asking the question, don't you sort of already know the answer? Because if you knew someone out there who was doing it, you wouldn't have to ask if it was doable.

20Tigers

__________________
Si
Explaining Modes part 1
Explaining Modes part 2 (continued)

Andalus

Get a singer, occasional rock instrumentals in an album are great, but an album or a gig with no vocals... I wouldn't go to the gig and I wouldn't listen to the album, it would be dull. That's why I can't listen to all these guitar virtuosos for longer than a track, because I get bored.