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Old 11-02-2012, 04:50 PM   #61
willT08
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Meh, I'll take it.
Why? And don't give the me talking points about how it's her body or how the fetus isn't a human.

Because a woman is allowed to do what she likes with her body when it doesn't affect another human being and a fetus isn't a human.

It's the talking point because it's so blatantly obvious.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:55 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willT08
Because a woman is allowed to do what she likes with her body when it doesn't affect another human being and a fetus isn't a human.

It's the talking point because it's so blatantly obvious.

So true.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:04 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by crazysam23_Atax
Why? And don't give the me talking points about how it's her body or how the fetus isn't a human.

Well first off, tough because it is her body and the fetus really doesn't have personhood all things considered. Just because you don't want me to tell you so doesn't mean it's not true haha.
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Whether it's her right to do what she wants with her body or whether the fetus is human is largely a recycled argument. Give me a logical argument as to why I should favor the woman's right to choose over the fetus' right to life. I want to hear due's logic, not the logic of a liberal talking point.

Edit:
Oh, and set aside the issue of rape for now. Let's just focus on why I should favor a woman's right to do with her body as she wishes over a fetus' right to life.

Also, assume I have absolutely no position on this matter whatsoever.

My main reason for being pro-choice is bodily autonomy. (And my position is strengthened by the fact that fetuses aren't exactly persons.) Anyway, an easy way to understand my position is the hypothetical people-seeds analogy:

People-seeds drift about in the air like pollen, and if you open your windows, one may drift in and take root in your carpets or upholstery. You donít want children, so you fix up your windows with fine mesh screens, the very best you can buy. As can happen, however, and on very, very rare occasions does happen, one of the screens is defective; and a seed drifts in and takes root.

Just because the seed managed to plant itself in your house doesn't mean it has the right to use your house to grow into a real person and rely upon you for years after it grows into a real person. Is it sad that the seed will never grow into a real person? Sure, of course it is. But the bigger tragedy is restricting people from, when possible, preventing the growth of unwanted things in their body house.

Last edited by due 07 : 11-02-2012 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #64
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How does a fetus have a "right" to live? Where does it obtain these rights and how has it earned these rights?
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:17 PM   #65
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The Tea Party hopefully is collapsing. People like this and Akin and Mourdock saying stupid stuff on live television. Michele Bachmann is most likely going to lose her seat in congress as well.

Oh gods, let it be true!
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:48 PM   #66
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Come on Sam, don't pull an Ethan Hanus on us
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Thrashtastic15
Um, people who care about the fact that there are high profile republicans who have the potential to have real, legitimate powers in the United States who have similarly disgusting, backwards, and restricting views towards women and what freedoms they should have to best protect their quality of life? (the missing member of N Sync aka Ryan btw). What the hell is wrong with having a reasonable discussion about that?


I don't understand why you seem to take pride in the fact that you ardently avoid rational discussions on any topic that has even a smidgen of intellectual depth or is an important issue. Does your mind even comprehend things other than sports, tv shows, and e-fellating? The things that seem to define your interests and how you spend your time are so considerably more inconsequential, meaningless, and just plain stupid that I really don't see how you can even conceive of having the right to cast a stone at others. Look in the goddamn mirror.

Love ya btw bb
I just wanted to post that mostly.

I do care about that stuff but I really don't come to the Pit to discuss it. Though i guess it's a bit of a dick move to post shit in the thread if I have nothing to add to the discussion. Honestly, I'll try not to do that anymore. Seriously.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:02 PM   #68
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well I consider myself pro life[let the flaming begin ], and since I believe life begins at conception [since a fetus has a unique genetic code after fertilisation and the potential to become an adult] it's only logical that I should consider abortion wrong in all cases except maybe where the mother may be at danger because you are then considering 2 lives and not just one.
It's pretty simple, is it the fetus's fault that his/her mother was raped? rape is terrible and a rapist should always be punished heavily but fixing one wrong with another isn't the way most things work. you can't decide weather or not the child will have shitty life or not because all your doing really is simply speculating. At-least with suicide the individual makes a choice that dictates the mortality of they're own life and not of another [unless you're a terrorist ]
In the end that's what it comes down to, where you believe life starts.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:03 PM   #69
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But it's the woman's fault she got raped/pregnant?
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:05 PM   #70
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But it's the woman's fault she got raped/pregnant?


I didn't say that... the woman is definitely a victim
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #71
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Why should she have to have a baby if it's not her fault?
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Originally Posted by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

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Old 11-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabmetallion
I didn't say that... the woman is definitely a victim

And you don't find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:13 PM   #73
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well, i could spin that question around and say why should the fetus be aborted if it wasn't his/her fault. Like i said before it all depends when you consider life begins
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:17 PM   #74
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So what you're saying is that a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term and raise it for her entire life because she has been raped?

How is that not punishing the victim?
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i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

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Old 11-02-2012, 09:21 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willT08
And you don't find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?


morals is another issue entirely, some people think they are fixed and some think they are relative. the abortion issue revolves primarily on the right to weather the fetus get's to live or not. It's definitely a tough and awful situation to be in.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #76
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It's just a clump of cells. It doesn't have any more "rights" than the jizz you murderously shoot into a Kleenex on a regular basis.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by element4433
So what you're saying is that a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term and raise it for her entire life because she has been raped?

How is that not punishing the victim?


look at it this way, why are some people forced to work very hard they're entire lives just because they're parents were poor or the country they were born in while others live easy and lavish lives? is it they're fault? life is unfair, it's an unfortunate reality. financial support and adoption are also options.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ErikLensherr
It's just a clump of cells. It doesn't have any more "rights" than the jizz you murderously shoot into a Kleenex on a regular basis.


sperm and eggs are released naturally and have the same genetic code as the individual releasing them, a foetus however is unique because it's a result of the fertilization of 2 sex cells and therefore has it's own genetic code. that's the key difference
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:34 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by arabmetallion
morals is another issue entirely, some people think they are fixed and some think they are relative. the abortion issue revolves primarily on the right to weather the fetus get's to live or not. It's definitely a tough and awful situation to be in.

Way to completely avoid the question. I'll ask it again.

Do you find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:38 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by willT08
Way to completely avoid the question. I'll ask it again.

Do you find it morally reprehensible to make women give birth to children that are the result of a violent, forceful, invading crime against their body?


compared to the forced extermination [by the mother] of a fetus that does not yet have a say in weather or not it's allowed to live or not then my answer would have to be no
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