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Old 11-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #21
AcousticMirror
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Not all power tube distortion is the same either.

People go after tones that were made with 6l6s or el34s. Yet, the majority of low-wattage solutions in the .5-2 watt range are using pre-amp tubes in power amp duty, most often single-ended and even triode-strapped.

Even when those toys are cranked, they aren't gonna sound the same.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:25 PM   #22
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I would buy the book too Craig. Me want.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNfootballfan62
I'm very, very interested. A design oriented text?


Not at first. I'm hoping it will be a series. The first is explaining how tube amps work in a digestable way for people who are not EE's. There are a lot of references that are incredibly difficult for most people to make sense of. I'm trying to focus on what would be considered important in order to understand tube amps and translate it in a way that most people can pick up on.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:27 PM   #24
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i'm voting for you tuesday.

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Epic dude. Just epic.


that amp.

that amp right there is 10 watts and has more bass response than my old 50 watt marshall did.

this man is a complete genius.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:28 PM   #25
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i'm voting for you tuesday.


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Old 11-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticMirror
Not all power tube distortion is the same either.

People go after tones that were made with 6l6s or el34s. Yet, the majority of low-wattage solutions in the .5-2 watt range are using pre-amp tubes in power amp duty, most often single-ended and even triode-strapped.

Even when those toys are cranked, they aren't gonna sound the same.


agreed. Not to mention, even the 5 watters which do use "real" power amp tubes are normally single-ended. Which doesn't really sound the same as push-pull either. it can sound good, though, as long as you have no preconceptions- plus some classic tones were recorded on single-enders (layla, say) so it's a tone you're sort of used to.

but even a 5 watter cranked isn't really what most people (apart from cath) would call bedroom volume. It's a bit like saying a porsche is a better idea than a ferrari because the speed limit is 70 and the porsche only goes up to 150mph while the ferrari goes up to 200. You're not really driving either near the limit, what matters more is how each one is to drive at or below 70.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:56 PM   #27
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First of all, excellent post. I learned some new stuff, and enjoyed doing it!

I've always known that there was more to an amp sounding better when cranked than the power tubes, but I never knew enough to say why. Now I do! I was somewhat close, though, as I've always thought it was something to do with the speaker reacting more at higher volumes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CECamps
I've actually been in the process of writing a book that I will release on the Amazon Kindle platform. Very slow process though.


I quite look forward to this, considering I'm not an EE but I'm very interested in the whole idea and concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
but even a 5 watter cranked isn't really what most people (apart from cath) would call bedroom volume. It's a bit like saying a porsche is a better idea than a ferrari because the speed limit is 70 and the porsche only goes up to 150mph while the ferrari goes up to 200. You're not really driving either near the limit, what matters more is how each one is to drive at or below 70.


Yeah, but we all know the reason Cath is on here so much is because he can't hear anymore to talk to normal "real" people

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that likes to use vehicle analogies with amps, though
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:06 PM   #28
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Craig... as far as the power supply's effect, how much does the filter choke have an effect on low volume performance?

I have always been advised to not use them in low wattage/low current draw amp designs as it has less of an effect on the filtering, but how does work with low volume tone?
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #29
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TL;DR

Besides, what the **** would you know about amps?
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would a pedalboard make my rc20xl loop station sound better? the playback on this thing sucks with batteries and the power supply.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by darkwolf291
We should get all the GG&A solder junkies to work together to put together a comprehensive book on guitar electronics, amps, and pedals.


i'll write nothing.
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would a pedalboard make my rc20xl loop station sound better? the playback on this thing sucks with batteries and the power supply.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:18 PM   #31
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We need more experts to write up articles like this. I learned a lot from this. Thanks a lot Craig!

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Old 11-02-2012, 04:26 PM   #32
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^ You're welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GABarrie
Craig... as far as the power supply's effect, how much does the filter choke have an effect on low volume performance?

I have always been advised to not use them in low wattage/low current draw amp designs as it has less of an effect on the filtering, but how does work with low volume tone?


The choke will have the biggest effect on power supply noise rejection. How effective it is in improving low volume performance would be dependent on how it is configured in the amp's power supply, how the core is designed, rated inductance, and the current draw it sees--not to mention how the rest of the power supply is designed.

Interesting that you'd ever be advised against using one in any amp. I'd much rather use a choke than a resistor up front.

Now, I can definitely see an argument from a "wrong tool for the job" perspective. I certainly wouldn't use a big 20H/400mA choke in a single ended EL84 amp with a single 12AX7 preamp for example.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:31 PM   #33
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well, I know you like to run the whole amp through them anyway I've been considering getting one from Danbury (the company I get all my transformers from, although I may be going elsewhere for OTs in my production models, maybe edcor, need to test them side by side really) and see what they're like.

Or else I need to find some way of getting the high current o'netics ones
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #34
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Great post! It bugs me when I see posts about some amps being "too loud" for bedroom use. I think the only real issue is the volume knob being so touchy at low voumes, which is hardly grounds for buying a new amp.


But some amps just suck at low volumes. My 6505+ 112 was disappointing when not cranked, and upgrading the speaker didn't help. I eventually sold it because I ended up using a Vypyr 15 more often, but I upgraded that to a Vypyr 30 because the 8" speaker in the 15 just isn't good enough for me.

I think when someone is buying an amp for bedroom use, obviously the wattage should be considered(if it affects the price), but it should ultimately come down to how well it performs at low volumes.
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:41 PM   #35
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Great read!
maybe you should post this as a guest article.
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #36
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awesome stuff Craig, read all of it! Enjoyed ALL of it! haha
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:36 PM   #37
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Thanks man! Makes me less nervous about the Valveking 100W head that will arrive next week. Though I am prepared on ordering the FX loop volume box since it doesnt have dedicated Master Volume knob, most likely the "post gain" knob will go from whisper to "omfgthatwasloud" with a twitch from a wrist.

Also interesting points about the speakers. I do not have a cab yet, (considering Jet City 12S) so I have to research on how the speaker behaves on low volumes.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:03 PM   #38
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Great post man, thanks! Learned so much there that just went over my head before. I almost feel like I should be paying you for this though!
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0


Yeah, but we all know the reason Cath is on here so much is because he can't hear anymore to talk to normal "real" people

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that likes to use vehicle analogies with amps, though




and yeah i don't know why i keep doing the car analogies, as i know nothing about them. just they seem apt most of the time
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CECamps
Not at first. I'm hoping it will be a series. The first is explaining how tube amps work in a digestable way for people who are not EE's. There are a lot of references that are incredibly difficult for most people to make sense of. I'm trying to focus on what would be considered important in order to understand tube amps and translate it in a way that most people can pick up on.


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