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Old 11-02-2012, 10:01 PM   #21
z4twenny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xter

...It's just a gimmick folks...

in the context that most guitarists view it, it's just playing note patterns relative to the chord being played, like CST.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
So have you tried that modal progression I've made, I believe an apology is in order.(for the wanking comment.)


Nope, and not going to bother.

Negative on that apology. You said chord progression. For all I know you could of meant a simple I-IV-V in Db major. You can't be vague when you have an agruement. It has to be clear, concise, accurate, and right. Vague can be interpetted anyway, which means it's none of what I said about an agruement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z4twenny
in the context that most guitarists view it, it's just playing note patterns relative to the chord being played, like CST.


Indeed it is sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
(Is that better xter?) And to that point I did say Modal progression not chord. It's an ambiguous key because A Aeolian and C Ionian are the same just resolved to a different note , And in this case both notes could be resolved to......


No, you really didn't say modal. I'm going to drop this pointless agruement now.
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Last edited by Xter : 11-02-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z4twenny
so which mode is

A B C C# D E F G G#

?

or are you assuming a different mode over each chord?


IT could be in either C Ionian or A Aeolian, but considering it resolves back to a C7add6 I'm going to say C Ionian( still, either would work considering the C7add6 has an A in it.)

(Is that better xter?) And to that point I did say Modal progression not chord. It's an ambiguous key because A Aeolian and C Ionian are the same just resolved to a different note , And in this case both notes could be resolved to......

Last edited by lightdark : 11-02-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xter
Nope, and not going to bother.

Negative on that apology. You said chord progression. For all I know you could of meant a simple I-IV-V in Db major. You can't be vague when you have an agruement. It has to be clear, concise, accurate, and right. Vague can be interpetted anyway, which means it's none of what I said about an agruement.



Indeed it is sir.



No, you really didn't say modal. I'm going to drop this pointless agruement now.

umm Yeah I kinda did say Modal Look back the comment you were referring to. And no, it ain't pointless. you just think it's pointless cause I'm right.

Look at the comment you QUOTED FROM ME. I Did say modal. And I did tell you the specific chords. Look on the previous page, or would you further like me to prove that I'm right?

Last edited by lightdark : 11-02-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:20 PM   #25
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^ i went full ****** for a moment and thought add instead of sus, so yeah it sounds pretty decent but the E doesn't resolve very solidly back to C, at least to my ears. that being said actual "classical" modal music resolves very strongly back to the root and isn't so tonically ambiguous.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:20 PM   #26
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you realize the word "progression" in itself is completely in contrast to the point of modes. there's no cadence, there's no resolution, there's no "fulfillment" where it all makes sense.

it's essentially such a vague grouping of notes that the tonic is unstable enough for the melody to reciprocate incredibly primitive tendencies that became obsolete with the introduction of tonal music.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:26 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hail
you realize the word "progression" in itself is completely in contrast to the point of modes. there's no cadence, there's no resolution, there's no "fulfillment" where it all makes sense.

it's essentially such a vague grouping of notes that the tonic is unstable enough for the melody to reciprocate incredibly primitive tendencies that became obsolete with the introduction of tonal music.



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Old 11-02-2012, 10:27 PM   #28
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^ i'd say in the context of chord vamps theres resolution, or more so a lack of straying from the root. i guess i'd describe it easiest as being that whatever chord/s aren't the root imply motion back to the root.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:34 PM   #29
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But would that specific progression be considered modal or not? I guess in other words have I proved myself to know what I'm talking about at least more so than yall thought before?

Last edited by lightdark : 11-02-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:31 AM   #30
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The distinction between a vamp and a progression is that a progression implies a functional sequence of chords, as a sum V-I. In a progressing from tonic to dominant back to tonic.

A vamp is just a repeated set of chords, that don't need to be and aren't necessarily functional, but rather, outline a tonality as a sum of all their parts.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:49 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
But would that specific progression be considered modal or not? I guess in other words have I proved myself to know what I'm talking about at least more so than yall thought before?


Looking at your chords I'd be tempted to say that it's in the key of A major. I'll play them and confirm. Which mode do you think it's in?
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #32
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Actually since it has a C7add6 in it It can't be in A major sorry. It can either be A Aeolian or C Ionian.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:48 AM   #33
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^ minor, not aeolian since the chords are functional
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
Actually since it has a C7add6 in it It can't be in A major sorry.


you're thinking in the A major scale, but not in the key of A major. any note can be in any key provided the progression resolves. i think this is a big part of where you're getting mixed up - you can use more than 7 notes in any given setting.

the notes the chords use fitting a scale is a good rule of thumb early on, but it is important to remember that a key and a scale are two very different things and it's important to understand that a key functions pragmatically as long as there's resolution.

Quote:
It can either be A Aeolian or C Ionian.


modality is an obsolete way of analyzing something. you can teeter on the edge of being able to explain mixolydian/dorian/lydian/phrygian as modal (but even then it's typically only going to limit you artistically, whether you manage to make it modal or not), but unless you're talking gregorian hymns specifically using the modal system prior to tonality, you won't get by on aeolian and ionian because by definition they'll be major or minor because they're based around the tonic.

again, you need to remember that scales are different as well as inferior to keys when analyzing or writing a piece. your understanding of modality is kind of shoving square blocks into triangle holes because you were introduced incorrectly to what mode actually are - caveman's tonality.

you wouldn't go to a construction site with a chisel and some rocks when there are methods in place that already make bricks, and makes them faster, cleaner, and cheaper. if you want to get into modes, most of the material will be exclusively vocal music and while perfectly valid to study, it doesn't really apply to anything anyone will want to listen to in this day and age out of nostalgia factor, and they'll definitely get bored hearing it on a guitar.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:03 PM   #35
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This thread sucks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:15 PM   #36
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This thread sucks.


shut up
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:17 PM   #37
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
Actually since it has a C7add6 in it It can't be in A major sorry. It can either be A Aeolian or C Ionian.


Actually it can, in keys you can play any note you want or any chord you want, unlike modes where they are much harder to maintain. In fact since it has a C7add6 it could never be in either of the modes you list.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
So your saying that if I am playing a chord progression that involves A7sus4b6 That it's not in A natural minor, ( yes I do know that for it to be a true Aeolian mode the key would have to be c major.) But what I'm trying to say is that if your just using the same notes but resolving to the root note which would be C( if we were in the key of c) why complicate things and just say I'm playing in this form of the C major scale hmm?


...what the **** did i just read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
yes I do know that for it to be a true Aeolian mode the key would have to be c major


i'm not even going to tell you that you don't know modes. i'm just going to suggest that you think about all the things that are completely wrong with this statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
Okay, a complete modal vamp, here you go. We'll start out with a C7add6 leading into an A7sus4 going to E7sus4 back into the C7add6. hows that for a modal vamp. I've made other modal vamps to, ones that I'd like to put on here to listen to, but as of yet, I don't have a program that will allow me to change the files into and mp3 file.(no, no Itunes for me.)


...you need to learn (among other things) chord nomenclature. C7add6 looks like something rebecca black spit up. let's assume it really was a C13 - how would you define it as being in "C ionian" or "A aeolian"? there's a Bb in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdark
Actually since it has a C7add6 in it It can't be in A major sorry. It can either be A Aeolian or C Ionian.


Bb aside...

...wat

for your sake, i suggest abandoning the convoluted system of analysis you're using now and learn theory from the ground up. trust me, it'll be of great benefit to you.

don't worry, though, i'm not going to come after you if you don't. i'm just saying these things to help you - it's all a matter of whether you want to help yourself.

that aside, this thread sucks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
...what the **** did i just read?



i'm not even going to tell you that you don't know modes. i'm just going to suggest that you think about all the things that are completely wrong with this statement.



...you need to learn (among other things) chord nomenclature. C7add6 looks like something rebecca black spit up. let's assume it really was a C13 - how would you define it as being in "C ionian" or "A aeolian"? there's a Bb in there.



Bb aside...

for your sake, i suggest abandoning the convoluted system of analysis you're using now and learn theory from the ground up. trust me, it'll be of great benefit to you.

don't worry, though, i'm not going to come after you if you don't. i'm just saying these things to help you - it's all a matter of whether you want to help yourself.

that aside, this thread sucks.




I now realized I was playing a different modal progression than I wrote.... yes I'm sorry. The c chord I'm playing is Csus2add6...... YEah I know wrong time to say that I was wrong. didn't realize it until I saw the whole Bb thing.... Sorry...

Last edited by lightdark : 11-03-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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