ibanez1997

Hi,
I currently own a Fender Mustang I amp, and while I can get some good tones out of it with the Fender FUSE software, I plugged into a Peavey 6505+ 112 at Guitar Center a few weeks ago, and there was a depth to it I just could not get out of the Mustang. The best way I can describe it is the Mustang was 2-dimensional, kind of flat, and the Peavey was 3D.

I may have a chance to upgrade soon, and I'd prefer to get a digital unit over an amp, because:
1)I'm worried a 60-watt tube combo will be too loud; I'm just in the bedroom for now.
2)It would be easier to record a digital processor.

So, the ideal choice would be a Fractal Audio Axe FX, from what I've heard, but the budget is considerably less (preferably $800, $1000 if I push it) and I've narrowed my search to the Avid Eleven Rack and the Line 6 Pod HD. From what I've heard on YouTube, both can model the high-gain amps (Mesa/Boogie, Engl etc. which are important because I play mostly 80s-style metal) well, but I don't think that's a fair indication of what it will sound like.

So my question is: will one or both of these units give me the "3D" in sound that I'm looking for? If both can, which is better for my needs? If neither can, is there something in my price range which will? I will try them out as soon as I can, but it may be a while.

Thanks!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

lemurflames

I was told the 11R has improved amps sims while the Pod HD has more effects to play around with. 11R might be great for you. I believe it also comes with a version of Pro Tools.

If you're still interested in a tube amp, that's a different matter. We don't know what kind of sounds you're going for.

__________________
Gear:

Peavey Grind 5 string
ESP LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
Peavey 5150 212
ProTone DeadHorse OD

ibanez1997

Thanks for the advice! The thing is, I'm not sure if I do want a tube amp. I just like the depth of tone I can get out of one. If the 11R, Pod HD or another unit in that range can get that, that would be perfect! Otherwise, I could go for the 6505+.

Also, I've been hearing good things about the AMT Electronics Legend series. How would those stack up against a tube amp?

Thanks for the help!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

Chad11491

I have an eleven rack and I love it. It sounds extremely organic. What a lot of people don't realize is these modelers are MIC'D amps, so they will not sound like an amp in the room! They DO sound like recorded tube amps though. I think the eleven rack is leaps and bounds better than the pod hd. You do have to tweak Both units, as most presets on both are rather disappointing.

Another route is guitar rig 5. I thought it sounded much better than the pod hd , but not as good as the eleven rack.

Just my opinions.

__________________
My Gear:
PRS McCarty 20th an. w/ 1 piece rosewood neck
1986 Kramer Focus 3000
Self made super strat
Egnater Tweaker head/212 Cab

ibanez1997

Great to know, thank you! So, it wouldn't sound like a tube amp if played through a PA. If you ran it through the power amp of a tube amp, or something like the Tech 21 Power Engine (essentially a power amp and speaker) would it sound like a tube amp?

Thanks!

EDIT: For example, could you disable cab and mic sims and run it into the power section of a tube amp?

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

Chad11491

Yes, you can disable the cab and mic sims and get great results. It sounds very "tubey" I haven't experienced the HD this way, so I can't compare.

It would sound like any mic'd amp through a pa. The eleven rack would need a midi floorboard to control it with, and there IS about a second delay between patch changes for the new patch's sound to take effect. Look up singtall on soundcloud for a very honest example of what an eleven rack sounds like. I was very unhappy with mine for about a week, and then I found his patches and saw how he programmed them in, and now I'm making my own that sound incredible to my ears.

This all could apply to the pods too, I just haven't had as much experience with them to honestly compare, though I did think the 11r sounded better. I mainly play 80's hair metal and van halen and the like, so think of those tones as reference for what I shoot for in my amps/modelers and such.

__________________
My Gear:
PRS McCarty 20th an. w/ 1 piece rosewood neck
1986 Kramer Focus 3000
Self made super strat
Egnater Tweaker head/212 Cab

ibanez1997

Well, I'm still going to try both, but I'm very tempted by the Eleven Rack now. Thank you so much!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

lemurflames

It's worth mentioning that the Tech 21 PowerEngine is solid state - or at least I think it is.

Atomic has a 50W tube-powered speaker cabinet. It's about $800 though. They also have a 50W mono power amp you can combine with any guitar cab you choose. These might get you close to that tube sound when using one of these digital preamps.

There are also cheaper power amps out there, but I don't know enough about them to throw any names down.

http://www.atomicamps.com/products.htm

__________________
Gear:

Peavey Grind 5 string
ESP LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
Peavey 5150 212
ProTone DeadHorse OD

ibanez1997

Hmm, didn't know that the Power Engine was SS - then again, I haven't done a whole lot of research on power amps yet.

I've heard about the Atomic one, but that is pretty expensive! It's mostly for recording though, so I could just pick up the 11R/Pod HD and save for a power amp if I need it (even if I play live, I could just go straight to the PA).

Is there a reasonably priced foot controller that will work with the 11R?

Thanks!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

Chad11491

Most people on the forums use the behringer fcb 1010. It's about $150

You should try elevenrackpresets forums as they are a really helpful bunch, and the line6 community is too.

__________________
My Gear:
PRS McCarty 20th an. w/ 1 piece rosewood neck
1986 Kramer Focus 3000
Self made super strat
Egnater Tweaker head/212 Cab

ibanez1997

Sounds good!

I thought I'd narrowed it down, but now I've been hearing good things about the Digitech GSP1101 as well... Too many options! I'm confused.

I'm most concerned about sound quality, not versatility or number of options. How does the amp modeling on the GSP1101 stack up against the Eleven Rack and the Pod HD?

Again, thank you for all the help!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

baumaxx1

The Eleven Rack is a great little thing. Now I know the Pod does metal well, has an integrated pedal board, more effects, and you can have parallel rigs... but the Eleven is generally considered to be a step up in realism and model quality. Heaps of settings to play around with, and the cabs emulate speaker breakup, and there's the impedance matching feature on the input, so it cleans up nicely with reduced guitar volume and brings out picking dynamics.

The Eleven rack will need a separate pedal board... Behringed FCB 1010 and an 11Prom chip usually work well, and if you're interested in recording... it's a fully-fledged Pro-Tools recording interface and does re-amping from DI signals. Really cool little device for demoing guitars easily.

Both the Pod an 11 can be used as pre-amps into a venue's PA or your own FRFR powered speaker.

On the Digitech... I haven't hard it produce results as good, but you can always ask around on the DSP thread here since some people have used those.

If you want high gain 80s metal the eleven has Plexis, a JCM 800, Mesa Mk2, a Soldano Slo-100, a Dual Rec, and if you add the expansion (which is worth it), a Bogner Ecstasy, a modded JCM 800 and the DC Modern SOD, which is supposedly similar to a 5150.

If you want to see it in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrW_...&feature=relmfu

shredftw

you can get AxeFx Ultras and Standards for $1000..... just putting that out there.....

the 11R is good though i must admit, and it works as an interface too so you don't have to worry about that when recording with it. The POD HD is good, but the 11R and the AxeFx are just better. One of those will be your best option.

__________________

ibanez1997

AxeFx for $1000? Wow.

I just ran a search though, nothing used on Guitar Center or my local Craigslist, and the lowest I can find for and AxeFx Standard on eBay is $1300.

Where did you find it for $1000?

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

Chad11491

Look on the gear page. They go for that somewhat regularly. I got my eleven rack for 425 including pro tools and the expansion pack, and pod HD500's go for about 325-350 quite often.

__________________
My Gear:
PRS McCarty 20th an. w/ 1 piece rosewood neck
1986 Kramer Focus 3000
Self made super strat
Egnater Tweaker head/212 Cab

MatrixClaw

+1, exactly what I was gonna come into this thread and say

Rig Talk had one last week or the week before.

__________________




www.SanctityStudios.com

ibanez1997

So would it be easier to find one cheap on the forums than on eBay or Craigslist?

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

ibanez1997

Well, I've got a gig this coming weekend and I need something to handle our setlist which is everything from Hendrix to Rush to Maiden, and I figure I might go with the Pod just for the fact that it's a floorboard, and it will be far easier to switch presets, as well as cheaper. I've heard good tones out of it, and as I understand from all the replies here, it will get the '3D' sound I keep talking about right? If it won't, I don't see it as a significant improvement over the Mustang...

Anyway, will head over to GC to try the HD500 out. Thank you guys for all the help, you rock!


Ah, how I love UG smileys

Thanks everyone!

__________________
GEAR:
Fender Mexican Fat Strat
Mesa/Boogie Mark IVA combo

Boss ME25
Dunlop Crybaby from Hell
Squier P Bass Special
Tech 21 Sansamp Bass Driver

YouTube:http://www.youtube.com/user/FretsOnFyre

baumaxx1

3D is a weird way of describing sounds out of a modeller or amp... which usually sits as a in a single point in the room or mix. 3D would probably be more of a description given to a mix as a whole. Not really sure what that means in terms of a tone.

It will be a significant improvement over the Mustang, and Animals as Leaders' first album was done on the older Pod X3 or XT or something, and the HDs are a step up.

If you want a comparison:

The patches are EQd differently between the 2 units.

And clean tone: