Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Gear & Accessories
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-03-2012, 11:49 PM   #1
the hirsh
Unegistered User
 
the hirsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Should I get an attenuator?

I recently bought a jcm800 and 2x12 cab, they're SOOO loud!! I don't play them at home but at band practice today I couldn't turn the volume past 1.5. I play in a metal band with 2 other guitarists and a VERY heavy hitting drummer. Will I ever be able to turn up, even at outdoor gigs?
the hirsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 11:59 PM   #2
AcousticMirror
loves cheesecake
 
AcousticMirror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
do you get a prize for turning it up above 1.5?
do you need an attenuator so you can get that prize?
__________________
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.
AcousticMirror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 12:01 AM   #3
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Attenuator might help you, it also might not. They are finicky beasts. I'd look into lower sensitivity speakers before I messed with attenuators.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 12:03 AM   #4
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
What JCM800 do you have? There are several different ones.

And:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/foru...d.php?t=1433637
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification

Last edited by Cathbard : 11-04-2012 at 12:06 AM.
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 01:23 AM   #5
the hirsh
Unegistered User
 
the hirsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Its a 2203. I've never had the opportunity to turn up the master so I'm not even sure how much better it would sound. Is it a big difference generally?
the hirsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 01:26 AM   #6
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Generally, it depends on the amp. Generally, with that amp, the cliche 'JCM800 sound' is when its cranked, but how loud that is, well, is up to preference. If its a 2203 I'd try running it with just 2 tubes instead of 4 and try to find some lower sensitivity speakers, that'll do you better than an attenuator.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 08:31 AM   #7
gosam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
As said before lower sensitivity speakers will help.
I also have a 2203 and I've put in a PPIMV. Post phase inverter master volume if you don't know.
It's basically a third volume knob that allows you to crank the master while bringing down the overall volume.
I haven't had the opportunity to compare the sound of the cranked jcm with and without PPIMV, but it's logical that there would be some tone loss or change. Though a lot of people agree that it's better than attenuators in that respect.
gosam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 09:51 AM   #8
Ian_the_fox
Banned
 
Ian_the_fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
To start with what kind of music do you play? If you play thrash or death an attenuator would be pointless, as the point of one is to drive the power section, and modern metal relies on preamp drive.

Just get a TS-9 as a boost and keep the volume below 1.5 unless you need it. There's no law that says you have to turn it past that point. If it sounds good at that level, leave it be.


Oh and if 1.5 is too loud, you don't have a hard hitting drummer unless he's using cardboard boxes as a drumset.
Ian_the_fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 10:22 AM   #9
kyle62
Need a dispenser here!
 
kyle62's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
Oh and if 1.5 is too loud, you don't have a hard hitting drummer unless he's using cardboard boxes as a drumset.
This. I used to be able to get my JCM800 up to maybe 5-6 on the master with our old drummer and his custom-built Masterworks kit.


I wouldn't be overly concerned to be honest.

When you go a concert where they're using big Marshall stacks (say, Slash, Frusciante, whoever), they're still probably only running at 3 or 4 on the master volume, since it's much easier to mic up and engineer guitar amps at moderate volume.
__________________
RECORD PRODUCERIST, GUITAR PLAYER AND MERCENARY OF AUDIO
CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT MY AWESOME WORK
kyle62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #10
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Pull two power tubes (the inner or outer two) and switch the impedance selector down one notch. You now have a 50W 2204. It will still be loud but you'll be far more drummer friendly.
If you find that it's still too loud when turned up to where you like it, then look into attenuators.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification

Last edited by Cathbard : 11-04-2012 at 10:37 AM.
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 06:08 PM   #11
minieme007
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I don't know anything about the subject but I found this a while ago when I started considering getting a tube amp:

http://carlscustomguitars.com/The-O...-Volume-Box.htm

Anyone know what this is like?
minieme007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 07:11 PM   #12
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Its a volume knob to put in the FX loop, its basically 5 dollars worth of parts that is really only useful to amps with extremely touchy master volume controls. It is not an 'attenuator' in the sense that we think of a guitar amplifier attenuator.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #13
minieme007
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Saale
Its a volume knob to put in the FX loop, its basically 5 dollars worth of parts that is really only useful to amps with extremely touchy master volume controls. It is not an 'attenuator' in the sense that we think of a guitar amplifier attenuator.

Damn, I suspected as much but was hoping against it. Could it be useful though?
minieme007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #14
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Quote:
Originally Posted by minieme007
Damn, I suspected as much but was hoping against it. Could it be useful though?


Yeah, depending on the amp. Something like a 6505 which is very twitchy at low volumes would be easier to dial in to a low sound. It won't make it sound better, just make it easier to control the sound at low volumes.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 12:12 AM   #15
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Pulling two tubes costs nothing.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:13 AM   #16
the hirsh
Unegistered User
 
the hirsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
i play mostly rock, so I'm trying to get some power amp juices running. I have a ts9-ish pedal (green rhino) that I use for harder stuff so I guess I don't really NEED to turn up. Thanks for all the info from everyone, I think I'll try pulling 2 tubes next practice.
the hirsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:14 AM   #17
the hirsh
Unegistered User
 
the hirsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
Oh and if 1.5 is too loud, you don't have a hard hitting drummer unless he's using cardboard boxes as a drumset.


Yeah maybe not, he's just way louder than any other drummer ive played with so it might just feel like hes hard hitting. Not too sure.
the hirsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:16 AM   #18
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Don't forget to switch the impedance selector down a notch when you pull two tubes. If the cab is 16 ohm, run the amp on 8.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:41 AM   #19
ZosOhio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
I was in this same predicament a year ago or so. The frustration caused me to sell my Peavey 6534+, which I loved. Although I miss that amp very much, it helped me realize that I really do not need an amp of that caliber, in terms of power.

However, I did purchase two attenuators over the summer because I've moved into a more urban location and I have not regretted it one bit. It's allowed me to play my Mesa Mini Rec at much closer to the sound I want; without the cops kicking down my door.

In my opinion, the Rivera Rockcrusher is the best one on the market, but it is 500$ new on most sites. Not out of the budget for all people, but it was for me, so I ended up returning it. It was outstanding though. I could dime my amp and still play at 2 am if I wanted to.

I stuck with the Dr.Z Air Brake. It altered the tone slightly more than Rockcrusher (not much at all), but it got my sound to the volume I wanted for a lot less buck than the Rivera.

The third option I've heard of is the THD Hot Plate. I've spoken with people that didn't have many positive things to say about it, but I've never used it for myself and it does seem like THD sells quite a bit of them.

In short - Go Rivera if you can, but definitely consider the Dr. Z if you can't.

Ultimately, whether or not you should get an attenuator comes down to a lot of different things. But if you do decide to get one, I hope all of that helps.
ZosOhio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:47 AM   #20
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZosOhio
I was in this same predicament a year ago or so. The frustration caused me to sell my Peavey 6534+, which I loved. Although I miss that amp very much, it helped me realize that I really do not need an amp of that caliber, in terms of power.

However, I did purchase two attenuators over the summer because I've moved into a more urban location and I have not regretted it one bit. It's allowed me to play my Mesa Mini Rec at much closer to the sound I want; without the cops kicking down my door.

In my opinion, the Rivera Rockcrusher is the best one on the market, but it is 500$ new on most sites. Not out of the budget for all people, but it was for me, so I ended up returning it. It was outstanding though. I could dime my amp and still play at 2 am if I wanted to.

I stuck with the Dr.Z Air Brake. It altered the tone slightly more than Rockcrusher (not much at all), but it got my sound to the volume I wanted for a lot less buck than the Rivera.

The third option I've heard of is the THD Hot Plate. I've spoken with people that didn't have many positive things to say about it, but I've never used it for myself and it does seem like THD sells quite a bit of them.

In short - Go Rivera if you can, but definitely consider the Dr. Z if you can't.

Ultimately, whether or not you should get an attenuator comes down to a lot of different things. But if you do decide to get one, I hope all of that helps.


Weber minimass has those all beat on price and specs, if an attenuator is what you really want. Usually though, an attenuator isn't what you want.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.