Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Gear & Accessories
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-06-2012, 09:02 PM   #21
Ian_the_fox
Banned
 
Ian_the_fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
What you feel in the room =/= what you hear on the recording so your point is null.

The Kemper and Axe do exactly what you want, they do low gain tones as well, so you shouldnt discount them because they allow you to do what you want without needing volume.

Ok you wont "feel" the volume, but the finial result is so similar, you cannot really tell the difference.
I love how how I write 4 paragraphs explaining why I don't want a digital modeler, yet I get a shit ton of people telling me to get one anyway.


Let me say this again: THEY DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS TUBE AMPS. PERIOD.

In room, on recording, wherever. You may not be able to tell the difference on your $10 PC speakers. Good for you. I listen to my music on half-decent systems, and I can easily hear the difference. Digital doesn't have the raw "balls" or the touch sensitivity that tubes have. At ANY volume.

This all might not matter if you're playing generic overly-processed Djenty-Grind-Death-Core, but that's not the sound I'm going for.
Ian_the_fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:05 PM   #22
lemurflames
chugchugchugchug
 
lemurflames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oklahoma
You can't be helped.
__________________
ESP LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
EVH 5150 III 50
PRS 212 DB
Peavey 5150 212
ProTone Dead Horse OD
lemurflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:11 PM   #23
Eppicurt
Don't even like pedals.
 
Eppicurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
I love how how I write 4 paragraphs explaining why I don't want a digital modeler, yet I get a shit ton of people telling me to get one anyway.


Let me say this again: THEY DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS TUBE AMPS. PERIOD.

In room, on recording, wherever. You may not be able to tell the difference on your $10 PC speakers. Good for you. I listen to my music on half-decent systems, and I can easily hear the difference. Digital doesn't have the raw "balls" or the touch sensitivity that tubes have. At ANY volume.

This all might not matter if you're playing generic overly-processed Djenty-Grind-Death-Core, but that's not the sound I'm going for.

Oh sorry, we forgot that's all the Axe Fx is good for.



Tone matching on the Axe Fx 2. No reason why you can't do the same thing on the lower gain models. And you can't tell me in a blind-fold test that you would be able to distinguish them.

Iso cabs do tend the suck the life out of the sound and can make it muffled as there are more or less zero acoustics inside one. If you really wanted to get authentic tube recordings, you're better off hiring out a rehearsal space for a few hours and crank the amp to the sweet spot, wherever it may be. "Silent recording" of tube amps just isn't happening.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
Eppicurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:24 PM   #24
Tom 1.0
Hot For Teacher
 
Tom 1.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
I love how how I write 4 paragraphs explaining why I don't want a digital modeler, yet I get a shit ton of people telling me to get one anyway.


Let me say this again: THEY DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS TUBE AMPS. PERIOD.

In room, on recording, wherever. You may not be able to tell the difference on your $10 PC speakers. Good for you. I listen to my music on half-decent systems, and I can easily hear the difference. Digital doesn't have the raw "balls" or the touch sensitivity that tubes have. At ANY volume.

This all might not matter if you're playing generic overly-processed Djenty-Grind-Death-Core, but that's not the sound I'm going for.



Enjoy your mushy flat lifeless sounding tube amp on 0.5 then mate.

We are telling you the only realistic option you have, hence why I ignored your daft biased and ignorant ideal that only a tube amp is good enough.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
I'm not familiar with police procedures.



1977 Burny FLG70
Tom 1.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:32 PM   #25
gumbilicious
beginner
 
gumbilicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: on the road... again
i think we are getting aggressive with the advice again guys
__________________
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
gumbilicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:37 PM   #26
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
 
ihartfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
I liked the sound-proofed closet idea. that's what I do (only with pillows instead of legit soundproofing). It worked well too.
__________________
My Rig
Like Telecasters?
ihartfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:39 PM   #27
Ian_the_fox
Banned
 
Ian_the_fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppicurt
Oh sorry, we forgot that's all the Axe Fx is good for.



Tone matching on the Axe Fx 2. No reason why you can't do the same thing on the lower gain models. And you can't tell me in a blind-fold test that you would be able to distinguish them.

Iso cabs do tend the suck the life out of the sound and can make it muffled as there are more or less zero acoustics inside one. If you really wanted to get authentic tube recordings, you're better off hiring out a rehearsal space for a few hours and crank the amp to the sweet spot, wherever it may be. "Silent recording" of tube amps just isn't happening.
Now I'll admit in that video it sounded a lot better. Better than the other comparison videos that only used the stock presets compared to the actual amp. But it still has that quality, particularly in the low end. Like a "woof" almost, somewhere in the 100-250hz range. It's even more noticeable in his videos without the full band mix.

The Kemper sounds better at replicating the tube sound than the Axe, but for the price of a Kemper I could buy an Iso-booth and forget about all of this.


The muffled part was what I was worried about. Not in that it's closed in a box, but I've had a horrible experience trying to get a 1x12 to sound good in a mix, which is why I eventually said screw it and bought a 2x12 with V30's.

But reading on the Randall it appears like it was intentionally designed with some space at the bottom of the cab to give breathing room for the speaker. Even if it's not as good as room miking, it still beats the fakeness of digital.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 1.0
Enjoy your mushy flat lifeless sounding tube amp on 0.5 then mate.

We are telling you the only realistic option you have, hence why I ignored your daft biased and ignorant ideal that only a tube amp is good enough.
The whole purpose of the thread is me asking how I can operate a tube amp like it's supposed to and not bother others. I stated valid reasons why I dislike the sound of digital modeling, and why I don't want to migrate from tubes.

If you're not going to give me an answer to the question of "how do I preserve the sound I have", and give a suggestion for something I don't want, then why even bother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartfood
I liked the sound-proofed closet idea. that's what I do (only with pillows instead of legit soundproofing). It worked well too.
If I do this It would probably be with professional sound proofing material, for better sound proofing sake and for better acoustics.

Honestly, soundproofing a closet seems like the best options regarding volume and sound quality, but if the closest is right on the wall of my neighbor's bed (like it is with some block style apartments), it can't happen.

There's also the option of getting a used vocal booth for around $1000 (something I've been wanting for a while now), but that may not fit in smaller places depending on where I go.



The worst thing about this thread is that it's all hypothetical. I haven't even moved out yet, nor have I encountered any intolerant neighbors yet. But I just know it's bound to happen.

Last edited by Ian_the_fox : 11-06-2012 at 09:45 PM.
Ian_the_fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #28
Eppicurt
Don't even like pedals.
 
Eppicurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney
What recording gear do you have?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"

Last edited by Eppicurt : 11-06-2012 at 09:50 PM.
Eppicurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 10:08 PM   #29
Reincaster
Call me Rein.
 
Reincaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
It's probably out of your price range, but it's a nice investment: The Torpedo Two notes loadbox! You run your amp into it, load up an IR/Mic/Reverb and record!

Here's another thing I've done in the past: Stick my amp in the car and record it! hahaha! Free iso box!
__________________
Peavey 5150
Mesa Mark IV
Mesa Single Rectifier (Series 1)
Fender Custom Shop Tonemaster
Roland Microcube

-Whitebox OS 1x12
-Port City OS 1x12

Digidesign Eleven RackAxe Fx Ultra
Reincaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 10:30 PM   #30
Ian_the_fox
Banned
 
Ian_the_fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppicurt
What recording gear do you have?
My amp is a JCA100h going into a Whitebox 2x12 with V30's (still running stock tubes, but I plan to replace those very soon), Shure SM57 for mic (occasionally 2 depending on who comes over to record), and Focusrite Pro 24 preamp and interface. When I record guitars I make sure it's highest quality possible.

Don't use the shit that's on my profile as a reference. The older one was recorded before I even knew what I was doing (and still using a shit 1x12 ) and the newer one was recorded with my old shitty interface and at a whisper volume (was really just a wank test).

I don't have anything uploaded anywhere of my recent work recorded with my good setup (that actually sounds good).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reincaster
Here's another thing I've done in the past: Stick my amp in the car and record it! hahaha! Free iso box!
As stupid as this sounds this actually seems like a good idea. Maybe not for summer time though...
Ian_the_fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 10:33 PM   #31
JKHC
Registered User
 
JKHC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FEngHLyan
She will join the prom.

She insists to wear this lights.

I don't think so.

How can I persuade her?
JKHC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 10:39 PM   #32
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
 
ihartfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
I'll try the car thing one of these days. awesome idea
__________________
My Rig
Like Telecasters?
ihartfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 10:52 PM   #33
Eppicurt
Don't even like pedals.
 
Eppicurt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sydney
Well it's not your gear.

I still think the rehearsal space idea is the most cost effective and efficient way to do what you want.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyBen
That's the advantage of being such a distance from Yianni. I can continue to live my life without fear of stumbling upon his dark terror.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppscore
NakedInTheRain aka "Naked with shriveled pencil sized bacon In The Rain"
Eppicurt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 11:48 PM   #34
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
You are describing the function of an isocab. Just build one, google some designs. They are basically just a box, you don't need to be carpenter to build a box. You can make a box can't you?
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 11:56 PM   #35
Offworld92
One among the fence.
 
Offworld92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southern California, USA
It honestly doesn't matter *that* much in the studio. If you're going to be burying guitar tracks in a grave along with bass, drums and vocals, the tone becomes less and less important as the mix becomes less about the guitar sound and more about the sound of the mix. There's so much else going on sonically that the tiny difference between a good modeler and a tube amp become almost non-consequential.

The stage is where tube amps rule supreme.
__________________
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

Epiphone Firebird VII
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Peavey USA Predator
Line 6 Pod HD500X
VHT Special 6 Ultra
Pedulz
Offworld92 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 12:00 AM   #36
Outside Octaves
Thinking about the octave
 
Outside Octaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
__________________
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Outside Octaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 12:01 AM   #37
gumbilicious
beginner
 
gumbilicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: on the road... again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
You can make a box can't you?


errr uhh.

__________________
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
gumbilicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 12:20 AM   #38
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
That picture is going onto my desktop.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 01:53 AM   #39
trashedlostfdup
land of white cannibals
 
trashedlostfdup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: deep south
ianthefox- i find this quite funny as that in every wattage thread you say "i have a 100 watt amp and my dad has a 50 watt amp" and they sound good quiet. or something along the lines.

now what is relevant. buy or build an isocab. get some cabinet grade birch on the cheap side or baltic birch if you want it more to higher standards. i have built several cabs, from head cabs to speaker cabs. if you go to a place like home depot or lowes and have your design figured out, they will make one free cut and i think additional cuts are $.50, if i buy wood from there that is what i do. just the bigger pieces that you need. in most cases they are better cuts than you can do provided you don't have a wood shop. however the baltic birch i get from a cabinet guy my father works with i get the sheets whole and have to make the long cuts.
__________________
FRYETTE SIG-X
SPLAWN KT88 NITRO
SPLAWN KT88 PROMOD
MESA TREM-O-VERB
MESA MKIV...

Ibanez Prestiges
Gibsons
and Wolfgangs

WTLT
trashedlostfdup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 02:13 AM   #40
Outside Octaves
Thinking about the octave
 
Outside Octaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Some people... you just can't get to accept something. Try getting a 90 year old to listen to a CD... most just are hopelessly addicted to their vinyls. Now try to get the same person to listen to a .flac or .wav file from a pc... LMAO.


I support you, OP, but I do have to say that if you can tell a difference between your beloved tube amps and modern, higher end, software based amps and effects... especially on a recording that you play back on something other than your amp's speakers.... and even more-so if you have it in a mix.... then you sir are only deluding yourself.

Don't get me wrong... there is something about a tube-amp. They do have a more lively tone to them. You just can't get that sparkle from digital amps on the cleans. BUT, for EVERYTHING else, from the mildest amounts of drive onto full-boar double-drop G (LMAO) UBER-metal-fire-breathing-Balrog of Morgoth distortion/overdrive... well the better modelers like Guitar Rig 5 and what not will match any tube amp out there... period.... especially for the latter... I dare you to show us a quality recording that shows side by side how I and the others are wrong... oh so wrong. This is your only option for truly "silent" recording outside a soundproofed room.


But as for not so silent, but not full-bore volume recording:

Yea, so far you're on the right track. Though obviously the smaller the "box" (read: room) the worse the sound, then again same goes for the other direction. Make sure to figure out what kinda sound you're going for in your recording future... too big is bad and too small is bad (with exceptions of course). You don't want to record something that shouldn't have much or any reverb in a cathedral, nore should you record something that should have reverb or what not in a box just a bit larger than the amp+mic lol.
__________________
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!

Last edited by Outside Octaves : 11-07-2012 at 02:35 AM.
Outside Octaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 PM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.