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Old 11-07-2012, 02:15 AM   #41
nickdohle
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In Ians defense, On that tone matching video, The Mesa patch had just a little bit less balls. Just a little bit. Not much.

Great tones from an Axe fx though. If I could sell my kidneys I might grab one
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:35 AM   #42
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What you're hearing as "lack of balls" is lack of volume. I'm betting that modeled version wasn't pushed through a half-stack at the same volume levels . Add to that the original was recorded in a room with a mic... the modeled version is straight up amp>cab with possibly some other stuff dialed in. Trust me, give both the EXACT same setup (impossible), you won't notice the difference.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:45 AM   #43
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This thread doesn't fail as much as the "light bulb" thread. Still fail.

Loads of good advice given. I like he is upset over the suggestions. Like he knew they weren't going to be given. Come on Ian you have been here long enough... you knew what you were getting into.

It's cheap to build an iso(You don't have to wait to move into a quiet apartment). Try it first. When it fails/or doesn't meet your needs buy an AxeFX.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
What you're hearing as "lack of balls" is lack of volume.


how would you know that? i am not trying to be too confrontational, but it seems to me that is just a guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
I'm betting that modeled version wasn't pushed through a half-stack at the same volume levels . Add to that the original was recorded in a room with a mic... the modeled version is straight up amp>cab with possibly some other stuff dialed in.


once again, how do you know how he recorded it?

i can't tell from the video if the modeled version is run through a power amp and cab or run direct line in with cab emulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
Trust me, give both the EXACT same setup (impossible), you won't notice the difference.


this is kinda misleading. you claim they'll sound the same with the exact same setup, but you also claim it is impossible to give them the exact same setup. wouldn't it make it moot to make that statement?

i am not trying to pick too bad, i too feel that emulation is quite viable now-a-days and i also feel plenty of good tones can be achieved with a digital software/hardware approach. I just think it can be futile focusing on emulation achieving 'exact' tone reproduction, wtf does that even mean anyway?

between the variations on different models, the tolerances of the parts used in the models, the different rooms the amps can be recorded in, etc... what exactly is 'perfect emulation'?

furthermore, i think this mindset also creates a monster in tone philosophy: that different = worse. i personally don't think different = bettor or different = worse... different = different. it should be evaluated fairly, tested for it's quality and usefulness and used where you think it could serve your purposes. i don't think it should be evaluated purely off 'does it sound exactly/perfectly like the original', cuz frankly i want to see more original and groundup design being used on amp sim software.
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Last edited by gumbilicious : 11-07-2012 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 02:56 AM   #45
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That demo Ola did was great. Keep in mind there were different guitars used between the Axe and the real amps. Not a 100% fair test, just a great representation of how close.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:16 AM   #46
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OOOh, I missed that lol... well, there's another reason why it probably "lacked ballz" lol
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:27 AM   #47
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The solution to all your woes: move out of your apartment into a house in the middle of nowwhere with no neighbours and crank the hell out your amps
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:46 AM   #48
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I would take a Kemper over an Axe Fx, just a matter of taste...
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:53 AM   #49
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Ha, best advice yet seljer!


gum: pick pick pick... oi, you pick more than petrucci.


I don't "know"... but come on, it's pretty standard to mic tube amps... not many people would do a comparison of a tube amp to a modelled tube amp by bypassing the "power tube".... then again ... blech! Too late in the night for me to get into it. You know what I meant and what I'm after. The guy hold's onto old concepts like an old fart holds onto stink, or an old man to his vinyls for the wrong reasons.


My logic in all of this:

Go ahead OP, and don't follow advice... we're doing that same thing in telling you to go with an Digital Interface for the pc or mac. You WILL get the exact same tones once you mix it into the rest of what you're music is doing.... minus a few types of clean sounds... then again guitar rig 5's van 51 is plenty tube'y. It isn't exact, but damn if you could tell the difference in a song or piece between what it's modeled after and the software version...

All that stuff you tell us is telling us that you are just holding on to old concepts that have now been proven wrong. You're holding onto feeling and other tactile things instead of sound my friend. There's nothing like playing a good tube amp, as far as how it feels to do so. But sound-wize my friend... few things can't be modeled, but only a few. Most everything now can be modeled accurately to the original. And we are only a few stepping stones away from true clean-tube tones from modeling.
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Last edited by Outside Octaves : 11-07-2012 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:15 AM   #50
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iso cab is your best bet.

sound proofing in any application is not cheap.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:33 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_the_fox
I love how how I write 4 paragraphs explaining why I don't want a digital modeler, yet I get a shit ton of people telling me to get one anyway.

Let me say this again: THEY DO NOT SOUND AS GOOD AS TUBE AMPS. PERIOD.

So true! Agreed.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:34 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
gum: pick pick pick... oi, you pick more than petrucci.


I don't "know"... but come on, it's pretty standard to mic tube amps... not many people would do a comparison of a tube amp to a modelled tube amp by bypassing the "power tube".... then again ... blech! Too late in the night for me to get into it. You know what I meant and what I'm after. The guy hold's onto old concepts like an old fart holds onto stink, or an old man to his vinyls for the wrong reasons.


i was mainly saying, how do you know they ran the modeler through a power amp and cab? how do you know what power amp they used? why wouldn't you think they just ran the modeler line in with cab emulation?

i wasn't saying that they ran a line out on the real amplifiers.
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Last edited by gumbilicious : 11-07-2012 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terribleguitar
So true! Agreed.


Would you and the OP like to pick up a little cash, for gear or whatever?

I'm thinking I could go to Kemper and/or Fractal Audio and get them to put up $10,000 or so for a blind test, say 10 clips from different guitarists, the only difference being that one set is run through the actual tube amp and the other is run through their modeling gear.

You put up your 10K against theirs, if you can accurately pick out the modeled clips, you win.

If not they donate your 10k to charity.

You up for that?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:31 PM   #54
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Just believe someone who owned both a POD HD and a tube amp. The real thing is better. It's more about the feel than the sound.

I mean, to the listener, the difference is minor, and completely unnoticeable when in mix. But it's a completely different story for the player.

Last edited by terribleguitar : 11-07-2012 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terribleguitar
Just believe someone who owned both a POD HD and a tube amp. The real thing is better. It's more about the feel than the sound.


I believe that you believe that, but that doesn't make it so for anyone but you.

POD HD, while a good piece of gear, is neither an Axe FXII nor a Kemper...
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
I believe that you believe that, but that doesn't make it so for anyone but you.
POD HD, while a good piece of gear, is neither an Axe FXII nor a Kemper...

Ugh, man, with all respect, you should be tolerant to opinion different from yours. The man wants a real amp, so please give him some options instead of saying "the axefx is as good as the real thing!!!11". He seems very confident in his needs, so I don't see the point in convincing him to buy a digital modeler.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:51 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terribleguitar
Ugh, man, with all respect, you should be tolerant to opinion different from yours. The man wants a real amp, so please give him some options instead of saying "the axefx is as good as the real thing!!!11". He seems very confident in his needs, so I don't see the point in convincing him to buy a digital modeler.


If somebody has more experience and thinks that TS would do better with an AXE FX, why can't he state so? It's not a new concept that people don't know what the hell they want.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #58
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Why do you think you have more experience than him?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terribleguitar
Why do you think you have more experience than him?


Where do you see that I said I was more experienced? I said Arby was.



Furthermore, it doesn't change my point either way.
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Dude i like rap and stuff. Im a furry and I also have a wolf plush with a hole that i use at times.


Only at times, though.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #60
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Just put lightbulbs in your amp.
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