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Old 11-07-2012, 12:54 PM   #1
Dont Move
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Go the extra mile?

I keep getting told that I should learn the notes within a scale, learn all the notes on the fret board......and play scales that way.

I'm told this is what a musician does compared to your average hunky dory guitar play who just moves boxes around the fretboard

Is this true? Is this really a useful tip? Or should I just cut out the middle man and start moving boxes around?

Last edited by Dont Move : 11-07-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:11 PM   #2
Bugbiteaudio
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You will definitely benefit from learning all the notes on the fretboard. I personally think every guitarist should do that from day one.
Imagine learning how to play the piano and being told not to bother knowing what notes you are playing..... Would never happen.
You will be grateful you did it. It is not as hard as it used to be. There are lots of online tools. Here is a great one:
http://www.musictheory.net/exercises/fretboard
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:21 PM   #3
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Learning the sounds of the notes is the ultimate goal, both approaches are just a means to this end. However learning the notes of the fretboard will make it easier for you to communicate with other musicians, and will give you a more intimate understanding of the notes as well as open the doors to other aspects of theory like constructing chords and such, whereas learning patterns will just make you faster at playing patterns.

It's up to you whether you wanna be a good musician, or just a good guitar player.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:47 PM   #4
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The difference is in understanding and actually KNOWING what it is you're doing.

A parrot can mimic human speech convincingly and learn a number of words or even phrases, but it doesn't understand the noises it's making.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:30 AM   #5
91RG350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugbiteaudio
You will definitely benefit from learning all the notes on the fretboard.........
http://www.musictheory.net/exercises/fretboard

Great advice. TS could benefit from your experience. How did you do it?

If you used the attached link... how did you make the connection between the web page and the complete knowledge of the fretboard in your mind?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:27 PM   #6
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Say the note name of every note you play. Start with C. Learn where every C is on the guitar's fretboard, including open strings (which for C is none of them in standard tuning). Then learn D. Then learn E. Then learn F. Then learn G. Then learn A. Then learn B. Then learn the five notes not diatonic to C: G#/Ab, A#/Bb, C#/Db, D#/Eb, F#/Gb. Say the note name of every note you play. Keep yourself to it. If you play a different note by accident, say the name of that note. If you say the wrong note name by accident, play the note again and say the right note name.

Tune your guitar to a random tuning. Use a tuner to fine-tune the open strings to pitches that are in-tune to A, A#/Bb, B, C, or whatever notes you get close to. Do what you did above for standard tuning again.

Tune your guitar back to standard tuning. Do not play scales. Play music. Play music to chords. Do not play scales. If you are playing over chords, alternate playing notes that are part of the chord and notes that are not. If you do not know what notes are in what chords, learn the construction of chords by reading and practicing diatonic harmony.



What you were told about what musicians do versus guitar players is inaccurate: musicians play music, not scales. If my suggestions do not work for you, ignore everything I have said and listen to someone who knows better than I do, which is most people here. Thank you.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:20 AM   #7
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Hmmmm.... I think the box shapes have their place when someones starting out playing guitar..... the trick is to learn the notes within them as well...so you can stop your random box-runs on an appropriate note... and make licks/melody around that note.... often but not always a chord tone...
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:54 AM   #8
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Do it. Its (relatively) easier on guitar because you can take those scales you learn and move it chromatically no problem. I'm a piano player first and its tougher for use to learn scales and other techniques because of the white keys. The things that give me trouble is the lower neck (bigger frets) and starting on the A string (I mostly practice scales starting on the E string).
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:59 AM   #9
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Mark (steven 'not really a seagull' seagull) is the king of analogies.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91RG350
Great advice. TS could benefit from your experience. How did you do it?

If you used the attached link... how did you make the connection between the web page and the complete knowledge of the fretboard in your mind?


I doubt whether he used that app to learn the notes. It just tests them. Actually, it only seems to go up to fret 5 so it's too easy. I only dropped a mark when I got to #47 because I was getting bored.

You learn the E and A strings 'automatically' from chord shapes (the harmonic equivalent of scale box patterns?). The D string is easy too: you just shift down the E string by two frets. You do the same with the G string (with the A). That just leaves the B string. Notes B, C, D, E (from tuning to the E string) and F are very easy to learn. That just leaves a couple of notes at the higher fret positions that are a little tricky.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jehannum
I doubt whether he used that app to learn the notes. It just tests them. Actually, it only seems to go up to fret 5 so it's too easy. I only dropped a mark when I got to #47 because I was getting bored.

You learn the E and A strings 'automatically' from chord shapes (the harmonic equivalent of scale box patterns?). The D string is easy too: you just shift down the E string by two frets. You do the same with the G string (with the A). That just leaves the B string. Notes B, C, D, E (from tuning to the E string) and F are very easy to learn. That just leaves a couple of notes at the higher fret positions that are a little tricky.

You can set which frets you want. The exercise is customizable. Start here:
http://www.musictheory.net/exercises
Click "Fretboard" Then Customize "Yes".
You can do all the frets at once if you want. I actually think that you can learn the fretboard this way. If you target a small group of frets at a time it works your weak spots more quickly.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dont Move
I keep getting told that I should learn the notes within a scale, learn all the notes on the fret board......and play scales that way.

I'm told this is what a musician does compared to your average hunky dory guitar play who just moves boxes around the fretboard

Is this true? Is this really a useful tip? Or should I just cut out the middle man and start moving boxes around?

The most important thing is to know the sounds of the notes you are playing. If you know what sound you are going to get before you play it or if you instantly know exactly where to find the specific sound you want then it doesn't really matter if you know the note name or not.

Music is about sound first and foremost. People were making music before they knew what notes were and gave the notes names much later on. So no you don't have to know the note names.

Having said that there are benefits to knowing the note names. Sharing ideas in circumstances where you can not use your instrument to communicate those ideas can not be done unless there is an agreed way of naming and describing notes. Being able to do this is extremely beneficial to a musician.

Yes learn the notes across the fretboard. Learn their names and learn the sounds. The task is quite a big one so it can be easier to break the fretboard into smaller chunks as a learning aid. This is where the "box shapes" you referred to come from. Learning them is not the goal it is the method to achieve the goal of learning all the notes, chords, and sounds that your instrument can produce.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:45 AM   #13
Hail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra150
Mark (steven 'not really a seagull' seagull) is the king of analogies.

he uses that one all the time shut up

but yeah listen to the green-named talking duck TS
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