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Old 11-11-2012, 11:50 AM   #21
astholkohtz
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i'll give you an example: this is the video I would have linked

he basically said everything that should have been said about the topic in less then a minute, giving a small but powerful introduction on what he was gonna teach, and why, and he even suggested an exercise.
freepower does almost all those things, but in a much messier and still somehow boring way.

plus, there's a psychological reason too. i dont get the feeling that he's good enough to be teaching, i simply dont trust him. don't get me wrong, he probably is, but that's the impression i get.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astholkohtz
i'll give you an example: this is the video I would have linked

he basically said everything that should have been said about the topic in less then a minute, giving a small but powerful introduction on what he was gonna teach, and why, and he even suggested an exercise.
freepower does almost all those things, but in a much messier and still somehow boring way.

plus, there's a psychological reason too. i dont get the feeling that he's good enough to be teaching, i simply dont trust him. don't get me wrong, he probably is, but that's the impression i get.


The problem with that lesson is that at no point does Paul actually talk about fret hand muting in terms of noise control. He talks about staccato using the pick and palm muting in the tonal sense but he doesn't mention the crucial muting with the picking hand, at least not in any kind of detail. FP's lesson contains all the information you will ever need about controlling excess noise, apart from maybe for crazy Michael Romeo tapping lines but even that's just an extension of the principles in it.

I'll give you that Freepower's lesson is a lot more dry but that's just a question of style, if you don't like that there's nothing anyone can do.

I don't know why it's not up any more but FP used to have a couple of videos of him just messing around over some other tracks... wish it was still there, I enjoyed it Ah well, for now you'll just have to work with the assurance that he's a better player than 99% of the people who populate this forum and is a professional teacher so more than likely people who get lessons from him at least learn, if not enjoy his teaching as well.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:36 PM   #23
astholkohtz
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muting with the picking hand is a far more advanced technique, and people learn one thing at once. if your chords sound like a mess, muting fast legato runs should be the last of your problems.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #24
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my point is: there's a reason why paul gilbert did not mention picking hand muting in that video
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #25
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:10 PM   #26
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If you can have total control and mute any string anytime you want than that's great. I try to make a habit of muting every string I'm not playing as much as possible. When I powerchord I'll mute the rest and sometimes I'll also use the left thumb to mute the top strings if playing on D-e. It's a string ringing thing, I mean just try some simple tapping without muting anything and soon everything vibrates and sounds terrible.

Just mind your strumming/picking also when muting, for instance avoid hitting the unnecessary dead notes to improve accuracy as well
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #27
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^ I took it down because it was a bit shit.

The muting vid I recorded about 4 years ago, just before I started teaching professionally, I hope it's pretty clear that I didn't consider myself an expert , I was just passing on stuff I learnt from my betters.

It's funny you'd link Paul Gilbert because he would be one of my teaching idols - he's concise, very funny and you still actually learn a lot. If you check my more recent vids you'll find my communication is a lot better, and possibly I'm a little funnier than I used to be. >.>

Also, anything you think about people having "common sense" regarding learning the instrument goes out the window after you teach a while. One teacher I talked to had a student who didn't realize you actually made contact with the strings with the strumming hand. She just waved her hand at the strings and asked him why it didn't work.

Maybe 1 in 5 students do a decent amount of muting before it's explained to them but it's not the majority. Maybe you're just a little brighter astholkohtz.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:03 AM   #28
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4 years can be a lot of time. what i do appreciate about you is your passion for giving advice and to pass your knowledge, and it's great to know you've been working on your teaching skills. we have the same taste in guitar lessons too, and that's probably the reason why you perfectly understood all my points. also, it's a big relief to know there's still someone in this world who doesnt take criticism as an insult.

about the "common sense" thing... what can i say? you guys know much more than me about teaching, since you both teach.

i remember learning muting. my first teacher would make play pentatonic scales on a metronome, and when it sounded messy, he would just tell me "cleaner", or "mute the strings", and i would slow down and just do that. it was kind of automatic to realise when and where to apply the same muting technique. a couple of years later i started practising alternate picking a lot, and again: my second teacher told me i sucked and that i should mute better. he showed me how he did that (he was a "thumb muter"), and i didn't like it. i sticked to palm muting, i just had to focus more on the muting and less on the picking. at the times i noticed that the problem was me being too self indulgent, which didnt have anything to do with muting. that's why i did not change technique (this is a perfect example of what i mean by "common sense").

and that's the story of how teachers taught me muting (they basically didn't). i just thought that's the standard way to do it.

Last edited by astholkohtz : 11-12-2012 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astholkohtz
(lots of stuff including something about not liking thumb muting)

Just curious but what did you not like about thumb muting? I have recently been trying to thumb mute, however I have found that on its own it's not effective enough. It works well to mute the string just below the one you're playing but my thumb is pretty bony and if I play the high E string, the slight arc in my thumb leaves the A string (and only the A string) open which can start to ring out. I still do thumb mute a bit but have found it's only really effective if I also use a bit of palm. I'm finding now though that, much like you've said, rather than explicitly thinking "I'm going to mute like this" I just think "I'm going to mute" and my hand does what it feels like it has to do to mute the strings, and it works really well.

I get that you don't always want to just do "what feels natural" (or at least should sometimes question/analyse how you're doing things) but to some people some things work better than others, and I'm sure a lot of people have got into far worse situations looking at other players and copying them, forcing themselves into positions that their body doesn't like rather than simply doing what feels natural and working from there. Then again (Hey, I do a lot of self contradiction eh? Guess I like conversations with myself. Or not.) sometimes you have to do things that feel unnatural for a while in order for them to feel natural.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:32 PM   #30
astholkohtz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llBlackenedll
Just curious but what did you not like about thumb muting?

nothing in particular. i just never felt the need for it.
Quote:
I have recently been trying to thumb mute, however I have found that on its own it's not effective enough.

that's probably a good reason not to learn it, if you already know how to mute with your palm.
Quote:
It works well to mute the string just below the one you're playing

i do that with my fretting hand. both with chords and with legato/alternate/sweep picking.
funny thing: i realised it in this post, by talking about it... i guess i always focused more on picking accuracy, rather than just muting strings i shouldn't be playing anyway.
Quote:
but my thumb is pretty bony and if I play the high E string, the slight arc in my thumb leaves the A string (and only the A string) open which can start to ring out.

well, as i said, muting is really crucial, but i'd focus more on playing just the E.
Quote:
I still do thumb mute a bit but have found it's only really effective if I also use a bit of palm. I'm finding now though that, much like you've said, rather than explicitly thinking "I'm going to mute like this" I just think "I'm going to mute" and my hand does what it feels like it has to do to mute the strings, and it works really well.

i'm happy to agree with you here and i'd like to emphasize once more that those are very basic techniques (at least for me) which i do completely uncounsciously.
Quote:
I get that you don't always want to just do "what feels natural" (or at least should sometimes question/analyse how you're doing things) but to some people some things work better than others, and I'm sure a lot of people have got into far worse situations looking at other players and copying them, forcing themselves into positions that their body doesn't like rather than simply doing what feels natural and working from there.

if you always do what feels natural to you, especially if you are self taught, the odds are you'll learn loads of wrong habits. i remember feeling very uncomfortable when first learning alternate picking, because of the small movements, which i didn't feel natural at all at the times. not only now i got used to it, but when i want to play really fast i imagine myself playing a tiny guitar with tiny strings (!), just to get even smaller movements.
on the other hand, there are a couple of thing there's not much to say about, you just do them the way that feels the most natural to you.

you need to be sensible enough (i was tempted to say "common sense" again) to decide which of those two approaches to apply to every situation. this, apparently (as i've been informed on this thread), can be very hard, so don't do it and always ask for a second opinion.

Last edited by astholkohtz : 11-12-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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