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Old 11-10-2012, 11:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregs1020
Arse.

You like it.

See, buying used has unforeseen fringe benefits.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tukk04
So are you pro-used? couldn't tell from your wording.
I personally buy a lot of stuff used. My point was that I'm neither pro nor con wrt buying used from a moral standpoint. I can't see any case for thinking it's wrong to buy used.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135
I personally buy a lot of stuff used. My point was that I'm neither pro nor con wrt buying used from a moral standpoint. I can't see any case for thinking it's wrong to buy used.

that's what I thought you meant
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by fly135
IMO there are zero moral issues involved with buying used. Nada, none, zip. There is no logic to support it.



Exactly. If the manufacturer wants customers to purchase their product, instead of a used one, they should sell their products at a better price. The fact is, most companies are pretty good at selling their products at a price the market will bear. Those who don't, well, they're not around very long. Again, it comes back to economics and perceived value.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkflame


TL;DR: Buying used hurts the manufacturer by not giving them any money, and it hurts them economically. Is that enough to keep you from buying used? How do you feel about that? What justifies buying used VS buying new besides the price?



(Note: this is just for a discussion, and I do hope I'm not starting a war, as we've all seen happen on here)


Your appear to assume the mfr is the only party of note in the transaction, which isn't correct.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Arby911
Your appear to assume the mfr is the only party of note in the transaction, which isn't correct.

I'm dumbing it down greatly, I'm aware of that. However, they are most likely one of the most hurt, as middlemen such as stores still do sell used gear and get a great commission on these.
Also, I was mostly viewing it from their point of view, making the product and not getting the money from it. I'm not pretending I know everything either, I'm pretty far from being an economist, but the way I view it, the manufacturers definitely do get hurt by the used market. I'm also informing myself in here :-)

As for the "Sell new for cheaper if you want us to buy new", I don't see that being relevant. If the new product is cheaper, the used market will get it for even cheaper, else it won't sell. Unless I'm missing something?
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:02 PM   #27
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a good lesson in economics would help tis thread. yes buying a product used is bad for the manufacturing end of things as it impacts their economic situation however there is way more to it than that. if you buy used at say GC well then that puts money into the stores pocket and f course the employees there. of course the other ? is would you buy a given item if you can't justify the cost? probably not. most people i think enjoy getting something shiny and new but hey were not all rich either. also part of the perceived value of any item is going to be resale. something like an american made strat has a better perceived value as you can sell it used for a decent percentage of the new asking price. on the othere hand a mexi-strat drops by 40% as soon as you walk out the door with it.

in the current economic climate manufacturers need to find way to entice perspective buyers to buy new. that is just part of business. lets face it for most guitar gear isn't essential (lets keep that a secret from the wives and girlfriends though).
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:22 PM   #28
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The manufacturer is the one most likely to be the one most hurt? What about the guy selling the used amp? Chances are that that money is a bigger proportion of his income than it is to some corporation. I'd say that that means it would hurt him more, wouldn't you?
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:45 PM   #29
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The consumer is probably the winner in the used market. But on an individual basis, if I look at how much money I made last year vs the money of some corporate executive at a company that is "losing money" because of the used market, I can't bring myself to feel bad. I'm sure there is much more to it than that, but that's how I see it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:55 PM   #30
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**** manufacturers, I'd rather put my money in the hands of someone who isn't a faceless, soul stealing entity.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:02 PM   #31
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i buy used for a number of reasons

-i can get product i want... they don't make Acoustic 270R or '69 Fender twin reverbs anymore
-i support local economy, my guitar shop can attest to that
-i can afford more/better product

until i find things new that i want, i am not going to buy them. also, since i am used to getting a certain value for buying used, most new stuff doesn't appeal to me.

that being said, i have recently bought two new products from people on this forum. Greeny's Toyroom effects is providing me a new pedal, and Craig's CEC amps is providing me a new amp. in the past year i also purchased a new Suhr T2. some of the first 'new' things i have bought in a while that i actually feel are worth it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:34 PM   #32
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Remember that the guy who sells used gear will maybe buy something to replace it. Or then he just doesn't use the amp or whatever he's selling. Would it be better to just throw it away? If it works perfectly and you don't use it, why not sell it?

I would buy new if I could afford it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:42 PM   #33
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Not to mention, its nearly impossible to find a quality MIA amplifier for under 1000 dollars new. Just isn't gonna happen.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:48 PM   #34
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Some one made a great point earlier. Buying a used amp gives that person more dollars to spend. For example- a user on here Jptan bought a used MKIV, the guy was selling it to fund a MKV. Mesa got a sale in the end.



Next point- the auto industry is great for comparisons.....

Product cycles- you need to continually change/reinvent to keep people buying.

If no one bought used the prices then everyone would take such a huge hit in the pocket book buying new that they would just get used instead. Wouldn't make sense financially. Having a strong used market attracts new sales as the price difference is less.

The Auto industry now does CPO's. This puts money back into the manufacturer(and dealer) even for used units. Customer wins as they have a warranty as well.



I sold a bunch of used stuff to fund my MKV. It was my choice as I could afford it. Was it a mistake financially? Yes. Now the used market tanked and I would take a $1000 hit if I were to sell it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:57 PM   #35
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I buy new when the price difference isn't that big with the used market, or it just isn't available used. For instance: I would have saved 300 euros on my Les Paul and SG combined. On the total price of those combined, that's not that much, so I bought them both new. Mainly because I like new stuff over used stuff. My Mesa, I bought used, because I would've payed double for one new.

Some prices new are just too ridiculous to pay new. I wouldn't buy a new Mesa, not even now that I have one. 2500 euros, no thanks. I could get 2, maybe 3 amplifiers for that amount of money.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:06 PM   #36
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Buying new gives your money to manufacturers which can then stay in business.
Buying used gives money to the people which can then turn around and buy new from other manufacturers.

Basic econ 101 says that as long as you're spending money, you're okay
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:27 PM   #37
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i always find it funny (more like bemusing) when people (normally it's on tgp ) act like it's unethical to buy a cheaper clone, but perfectly fine to buy used.

that being said, do i care that much about used versus new, ethically? not really. i tend to buy new for other reasons. i'd side with what cath said on that.

plus, knowing you can sell something on if you have to probably increases new sales, too. how many people would buy new if it were illegal to sell something on second-hand?
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:49 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
plus, knowing you can sell something on if you have to probably increases new sales, too. how many people would buy new if it were illegal to sell something on second-hand?


If it was illegal, there wouldn't be a huge used market either, so buying used would be harder, which would lead to people rather buying new.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:59 PM   #39
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Pirating doesn't hurt game companies. People who pirate would most likely have not bought it anyway. No pirate has ever said "shit, it's not on TPB, guess I gotta go out and buy it now".

On the other hand, if someone pirates something and really loves it, there's a chance they may be inclined to buy it after the fact to support the people who made it.



Similarly, I don't think people who buy used would go out and buy something if they can't find it used. The bottom line is usually budget, and most people aren't going to settle for an inferior new product just to support a manufacturer they never interact with face to face.

With that in mind, if someone is buying your product used, it's most likely because they can't afford it new - therefore they wouldn't have bought it new anyway.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:03 PM   #40
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^ +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by I K0nijn I
If it was illegal, there wouldn't be a huge used market either, so buying used would be harder, which would lead to people rather buying new.


yeah but people might decide to save their money, too. yes, if you need an amp, you'll probably still buy an amp- but you might not have 5 amps.
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