Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Instruments > Guitar Gear & Accessories
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 11-11-2012, 08:46 PM   #61
offcell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
When people buy new they are not supporting my economy. Terribly immoral
offcell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 07:41 PM   #62
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:15 AM   #63
GABarrie
Call me Gordon
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Plymouth, UK
Personally, I prefer my guitars new and generally go for my amps used.

Amps are much easier to sort out if the previous owner has abused them, and I don't get all the dirt from someone else's fingers or any fret wear. I also get to put my own chips and dents into the guitar and create it's own story.

Used amps come with broken in speakers, leave budget for re-tubing, any issues with faulty components have become apparent and can be remedied so they don't fail during gigs.

Having said that I'll buy the best deal, one of my main guitars is used because I got it for a great price, and both my current amps are new (albeit B-Stock) because the price was good and the used market didn't have them.
__________________
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-III
Jet City JCA5212RC
Archer "Nuns in Poses" Distortion
Archer "Dry Ice" Overdrive
EHX Deluxe Memory Boy
GABarrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:26 AM   #64
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
 
Blktiger0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Marrietta, Ohio, USA
The "easier to sort out" thing is completely backwards. Trouble shooting for a guitar that isn't working is much easier than an amp that isn't working, any day of the week.
Blktiger0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:38 AM   #65
Kevin Saale
Talks to empty chairs
 
Kevin Saale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In a desert, next to a chair
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The "easier to sort out" thing is completely backwards. Trouble shooting for a guitar that isn't working is much easier than an amp that isn't working, any day of the week.


Its all preference. For a tech trouble shooting an amp, especially some of the simpler tube amps, is super easy. I don't think he meant actually T/S a bad guitar, but more or less making it 'his'. I generally prefer to build my gear or buy it used, but I don't really like used guitars as much as used amps.
__________________
I don't give a shit if you listen to me or not.

Quote:
Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.
Kevin Saale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:54 AM   #66
Blompcube
Registered User Error
 
Blompcube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hereford, UK
in response to blktiger's point about how a 90% of a video game's sales are within the first 3 months of its release -

10% of the sales probably still makes an unfathomable amount more money than the average consumer will make in their lifetime. the used market doesn't hurt an industry that big. they've already made the billions of dollars in profit that they wanted, before their products even start to appear on the used market.

i see used products as a product the manufacturer has already made their profit on. the people who lose out are the previous owners, who often sell the product for less than they paid for it when they bought it new, due to depreciation. but that's their choice - if they need the money more than they need the guitar...
__________________
Gig-Gear
EBMM Albert Lee HH
Boss TU3 Marshall JH1/ED1 EHX small clone/stone Nobels PRE1 Danelectro DE1
Musicman HD75
Road Kill Cabs "Stag" 2x12 with Eminence screamin eagles.
Blompcube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:17 AM   #67
GABarrie
Call me Gordon
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Plymouth, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The "easier to sort out" thing is completely backwards. Trouble shooting for a guitar that isn't working is much easier than an amp that isn't working, any day of the week.

I never said "not working" I said used. I'm also talking from the perspective of someone who would take their stuff to a tech, not DIY it.

Used amp have dodgy/worn filter caps, duff tubes, very occasionally the speaker needs a re-cone, fairly inexpensive and quick to repair for someone who knows what their doing.

Used guitars have worn frets that require at least a dress but a lot of the time a refret, if you dislike the scratches that takes time to buff out, hardware and plates get tarnished, and need a full polish or replacement.

Personally I am an amp tech but have been learning the guitar tech stuff from my boss and getting pretty good with it. I can guarantee that I can bring an amp up from used/abused to full working condition twice as fast as my boss can fix just the frets on a used guitar.
__________________
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-III
Jet City JCA5212RC
Archer "Nuns in Poses" Distortion
Archer "Dry Ice" Overdrive
EHX Deluxe Memory Boy
GABarrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 12:05 PM   #68
Jaspafari
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Buying used should not hurt a company. If they should recieve money if someone sells it as used, they should not get any money out of it.

If I sell my AC30 to someone else, vox sold one amp in the end and got their profit, end of story. If a used amp get's 4 new owners, the producer should not get 4 times extra profit on a product they just made once.
Jaspafari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 12:26 PM   #69
tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
 
tubetime86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Hey man these assholes wanna preach about the 'free market...' Well sometimes the free market ****s itself in the ass. That's their problem, not mine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
tubetime86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 01:08 PM   #70
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The "easier to sort out" thing is completely backwards. Trouble shooting for a guitar that isn't working is much easier than an amp that isn't working, any day of the week.

There are no electronic components in an amp that are as hard to change as a fret - not even close.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 02:57 PM   #71
GABarrie
Call me Gordon
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Plymouth, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
There are no electronic components in an amp that are as hard to change as a fret - not even close.

My point exactly
__________________
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-III
Jet City JCA5212RC
Archer "Nuns in Poses" Distortion
Archer "Dry Ice" Overdrive
EHX Deluxe Memory Boy
GABarrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #72
monwobobbo
Registered User
 
monwobobbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: scottsville ny
ok think of the ecological impact if we all just threw our old equipment out. millions of MG's piled up everywhere . sure you could give it away but that has the same impact on the profits of the manufactures so i guess we can't do that. on the other hand think of all the players who got there start because they were able to buy used gear cheap. if they had to spring real money at the start then they may have never taken up the guitar.
monwobobbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:18 PM   #73
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
i blame the person who makes the mg, not the person with the sense to throw it away
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:32 PM   #74
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Guess we can't sell used houses anymore either...

This thread is stupidity incarnate!
__________________
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.
Arby911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #75
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
 
Blktiger0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Marrietta, Ohio, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
There are no electronic components in an amp that are as hard to change as a fret - not even close.


Coming from an amp tech, that's probably true. I guess for me, guitars are easier because I've been woodworking since about age 8. That kind of thing is second nature for me in the way that making a Bluesbreaker is second nature to you. I hand't even thought of that, though. I forget that I'm used to that kind of work Different strokes, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blompcube
in response to blktiger's point about how a 90% of a video game's sales are within the first 3 months of its release -

10% of the sales probably still makes an unfathomable amount more money than the average consumer will make in their lifetime. the used market doesn't hurt an industry that big. they've already made the billions of dollars in profit that they wanted, before their products even start to appear on the used market.


I'm not sure the exact percentage, it was upwards of 90%, though. Still, if it takes them 2 years to make a game and then all of their profit is made in 3 months, that doesn't give them long-term payment. The money they make in that 3 months has to then run the company for another 2 years to make the next game. It's not like when a Band releases an album, then tours until the next one, making more money off of the tours than the album. I've also never really seen much of a market for Used CD's or Movies, only Games.

Last edited by Blktiger0 : 11-14-2012 at 01:40 AM.
Blktiger0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:48 PM   #76
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
 
Dave_Mc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Northern Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
Guess we can't sell used houses anymore either...




that really would kill the economy

(you could probably make an argument that half the economy shouldn't be based on a housing boom, but even still... you don't want to get rid of it until you have something more sensible to take its place... a house of cards is probably safer than no house at all )
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemurflames
I had a Blackstar. I felt like I was lied to by Chappers, that fat ****.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Blackstar can blow me; dodgey ****ers.


Dave_Mc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:12 PM   #77
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
 
Arby911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
I'm not sure the exact percentage, it was upwards of 90%, though. Still, if it takes them 2 years to make a game and then all of their profit is made in 3 months, that doesn't give them long-term payment. The money they make in that 3 months has to then run the company for another 2 years to make the next game. It's not like when a Band releases an album, then tours until the next one, making more money off of the tours than the album. I've also never really seen much of a market for Used CD's or Movies, only Games.


I've tried to refrain, but this is just ****ing ignorant. Ever heard of concurrent development? It's not like a company can only have a single product in the queue at any given time.

And even if it were true, don't you think that a competent business model takes that into account?

If a manufacturer can't be profitable due to a well known market reality, they don't deserve to be in business. It really is just that simple.

Buying used does NOT harm the manufacturer, since they price their initial offerings according to market demand and margin requirements. Once they sell it, they have made their profit, end of story.

Buy new if you want to, won't bother me a bit, but lets not pretend there's some ethical nobility attached, because that's utter horseshit.

Just....****....stop....
__________________
The man who holds to a belief because of tradition, or hides it because he fears he may be shown to be wrong, does not love the truth but manifests a coward’s faithfulness to his prejudices.

Last edited by Arby911 : 11-13-2012 at 09:17 PM.
Arby911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #78
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
 
Cathbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Hang on. So if it might mean that the gap between new games hitting the market takes longer it's a moral and/or ethical issue? Huh?
Stopping somebody from buying something because they can't afford to buy it new actually is an ethical/moral issue. You're saying "**** the poor, if they can't afford to give their money directly to our corporate overlords let them go without." You're not even saying "let them eat cake." You're saying "let them starve"
Some high moral ground you've got going there. Methinks that you're standing on your head.
__________________
Gilchrist custom guitar
Yamaha SBG500
Telecaster
Randall RM100
Abbey Harmonic II
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
Cathbard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 01:46 AM   #79
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
 
Blktiger0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Marrietta, Ohio, USA
When did I say there's an ethica nobolity? I never mentioned this as an ethical debate, the TS did. I'm certainly not an a high horse, or debating against used. I buy a lot of my stuff used. I own many used games, a used car, etc.

Where the hell are you pulling that I'm saying **** the poor? I AM POOR! I seriously think there is some massive reading into what I said there. I was simply stating that they aren't making consistent money throughout when the game is available.

Jesus Christ...

My stance on this is simply that I think that buying New is better for the economy than buying Used. In fact, if you read back, I stated quite clearly that I think it's absolutely necessary for both to exist, and that nobody should go just one way, although there's still nothing wrong with only buying used or only buying new.

Seriously, where the **** did this notion that I think buying used is ethically wrong come from?

EDIT: To be more thorough with my reply:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
I've tried to refrain, but this is just ****ing ignorant. Ever heard of concurrent development? It's not like a company can only have a single product in the queue at any given time.

And even if it were true, don't you think that a competent business model takes that into account?

If a manufacturer can't be profitable due to a well known market reality, they don't deserve to be in business. It really is just that simple.

Buying used does NOT harm the manufacturer, since they price their initial offerings according to market demand and margin requirements. Once they sell it, they have made their profit, end of story.

Buy new if you want to, won't bother me a bit, but lets not pretend there's some ethical nobility attached, because that's utter horseshit.

Just....****....stop....


I know that many firms develop multiple games at once. It was a simplification. However, smaller firms can't do that. For example, Bungie made Halo and only Halo for a good while.

Yes, the bussiness model will take that into account. I never said it wouldn't. I was simply stating that they may make all of that money, but it has to be stretched long-term.

It doesn't harm them, but it also doesn't support or help them. My stance was that when you buy used you don't support the Manufacterer in the sense that they get none of your money for their product. Do I think they should get a royalty when you buy used? No. They made their money on that amp. I'm stating an observation that when you buy used, none of the money you pay goes to the Manufacterer.

Again, I have never once said that there was an ethical nobility, other than supporting a company you like. Not really a nobility, if you ask me. It's more of "I enjoy Mesa's products and want them to keep making these products. Used would be cheaper, but I can afford new, so I'll buy new."

Still I don't understand where you guys are getting that I'm acting like it's ethically noble, or makes you a better person to buy new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathbard
Hang on. So if it might mean that the gap between new games hitting the market takes longer it's a moral and/or ethical issue? Huh?
Stopping somebody from buying something because they can't afford to buy it new actually is an ethical/moral issue. You're saying "**** the poor, if they can't afford to give their money directly to our corporate overlords let them go without." You're not even saying "let them eat cake." You're saying "let them starve"
Some high moral ground you've got going there. Methinks that you're standing on your head.


No, I wasn't saying buying used delays the development of games, nor did I say that it made it a moral or ethical issue.

When did I say that if you can't buy new that you shouldn't have something at all? My advice to clear this up is to read Post #42, specifically, the paragraphy that starts with "I guess to be more concise...". Alternatively, you can read the TL;DR at the bottom. I still don't get where I'm saying to **** the poor.

Last edited by Blktiger0 : 11-14-2012 at 02:13 AM.
Blktiger0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 02:12 AM   #80
ghobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
I work hard for my money. I buy used and new, usually depends on the quality or what I figure I need. It comes down to my money and I'll decide how to best spend it or waste it.

Comparing buying used guitar gear to video game piracy is ridiculous, its like comparing going to the bar for a pint and going to a crack house. One is legal and one is not.
ghobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:26 AM.

Forum Archives / About / Terms of Use / Advertise / Contact / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2014
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.