ArmyOfTigers

Hey guys, some outside input and advice is needed for my band.

I play guitar in a melodic punk band, which originally started among myself and our bass player who I've known for as long as I can remember. He's not that great of a bass player, but he's trying to improve as much as he can. (He doesnt suck either). Well, we ended up getting a drummer, and a second guitarist. The second guitarist was in a local, but touring, pop punk band that all 3 of our members were a fan of. I seem to be the only one to notice, or care, but it seems like he took over the band. Our bass player, an original member, will do whatever he says, and acts like its the word of God, because he has more band experience than the rest of us. What he says, goes, and its kind of annoying me. If he want us to cut something, or add something to a song, the rest of the band acts like it HAS to be done, as if he America's #1 music producer.

He's a great guy, but his guitar style is EXTREMELY showboaty. In simple parts that are meant to be simple (ie a basic drum beat, with a palm muted 3 chord riff, so we can bring out the melodic vocals and have that be the center of attention), he'll add a bunch of solos/scales. Thats just one example. I cant recall him playing a normal chord for more than one line in ANY of our songs, despite what else is happening in the song. Even if IM soloing, he still wont take rythm, he'll start playing lead at the same time, and it sounds god awful.

I mean, there's times and places for that, but there's also such thing as over-kill. Now with our bass player who's very gullable to what this guy says or does, he's doing the exact same thing! But this time, he's biting off wayyyy more than he can chew on the bass, and wants to touch nearly every fret. And he has little music theory, and will be (unknowingly) doing something minor, while the song is based off a major scale (just an example).

If that's how the band likes to sound, fine, but it's not how I like it. And I'm the one who's written all but 1 song (Our newer guitarist is very talented, and decently experienced, but is lazy as hell and it takes him 2 months to come up with lyrics to just one song). But it really aggrivates me that Im the one writing all our songs (that he keeps changing), I paid 100% of our merch expenses, bought a PA System and a set of mics for the band to use, and booked ALL of our shows.... Yet I seem to be the odd man out here.

Should I quit?

If I bring up my concerns, chances are no one will want to listen, being that our new guitarist is always right about everything. And even if they do listen, I may be the happy band member, but then our new guitarist will want to quit if he's gotta stick to playing rythm at times.

Honestly, that quote from Drumline, "One band, one sound." Does NOT apply to us. Its as if it's 3 soloists playing whatever they want while standing next to eachother.


Advice??


I also came up with the band name, do all our graphic designing, imagery, flyer design, and I run the Facebook page and am the only band member to do any type of promoting. It sucks that as much as I do, it looks like I may have to be the one to leave.

Eddeh

All you can do is tell them exactly how you feel about it. If they don't like what you have to say, and can't find a fitting compromise, you might be better off in a diferent band who does respect your opinion.

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Firehawk2410

Yeah, just be honest. If they don't like it then do something that makes you happier as a musician. One of my acquaintances had the same problem so he just left the band, and he doesn't care how successful or unsuccessful they become. He's just glad he's out of it.

Get with people who are willing to cooperate and compromise with you. If you can't change someone's mind the first three times they're probably too full of themselves to weigh any options at all. They might be better off learning to be responsible and do things for themselves if you leave. If you tell them how you feel and say you're considering leaving and all of a sudden they love you and don't want you to go, then they probably only want you for everything they won't do that you already do for them.

And really, if you guys have a difference in musical style, then there's no sense in staying if they're making you play something you don't like. Get with people who think like you and share similar opinions on music.

philpeters

At the end of the day it's all about what's best for you in the long run. If they're holding you back and don't respect your opinion on it then you're better off elsewhere. Obviously your bassist can't help being mediocre and if he's trying to improve then brilliant but sometimes you have to be selfish and think what's going to have a better outcome when it all blows over. Just something to think about.

Phil

Wormwoode

I agree.

You really need to talk with your band or you will just get angrier and angrier and you will want to explode random babies.

MaggaraMarine

You could only talk to one member of the band at the time in your spare time. Like only talk to the bassist about the problem. Then talk to the drummer and then talk to the guitarist. Talking to all of them at the same time might not make them listen to you because they might listen to the guitarist.

Also, you can say that the songs are yours and you didn't want them to sound like that. I know that kind of guitarists are annoying. We have that kind of guys in our school. They have no sense of style (and I think that's what makes you good or bad musician). Your playing skills don't matter but what you play matters. You must tell the guitarist that simple many times means better and soloing all the time makes the solos sound less awesome. One solo per song makes the solo sound much better, even if it was a simple solo. It's the same as if the drummer was playing fills every second measure. It would make the most important parts sound less important.

Maybe record two versions of a song. One version that you would like the song to sound and another version with everybody soloing the same time. And then show both versions to your bandmates.

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axemanchris

... like Steve Vai when he wrecked that one Whitesnake album...

Mind you, it wasn't really any good to begin with, but I think in trying to save it, he hammered the final nails into the coffin instead.

CT

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HotspurJr

Being in a band is about the art of compromise. Don't expect to get everything you want.

But you need to be able to communicate with them about what your issues are in a respectful, non-confrontational, non-judgemental way. (eg, not by calling your bass player gullible).

What you have a right to expect is that they'll listen to you and work with you in good faith to create music that you can all be happy with. But ... they have the right to expect that from you, too. Everyone should be willing to compromise some.

And if you can't get to a mutually-agreeable place, then you leave the band. But it's not an ultimatum: "Do it my way or I bail ... and take the songs with me!" That only guarantees that the band won't work. It's a good-faith discussion and negotiation.

It would be silly to consider leaving the band without that.

W4RP1G

Do you have another guitarist in mind? If you need 2 guitarists for what you intend to play, then you run the risk of going through this again. Or the roles might be reversed next time, the second guitarist might think you are a controlling freak who won't let him grow. Or you might not find a suitable second guitarist, either skill-wise, or by level of devotion.

I say talk it over with the other guitarist. If he's a dead-set on running the band and can't be reasoned with, then you can talk to the rest of that band about kicking him out. If he's willing to back off, then you can try to work it out. But I'd say that if he's better than you, or more creative than you, then he's not going to be very happy with you placing restrictions upon him.

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cheapr2keepr

Tell the band "Hey - this isn't personal, but I'm just going to lay on the table some concerns I have..."

Let other guitarist know that all of his solos and extra fills should be used sparingly, like a spice. If you put too much salt and pepper on anything it will taste like crap. It doesn't matter if it was the finest salt and pepper ever produced - the meal still got ruined.

Record current band material at practice, and get outside opinions. Confront band with unbiased evidence that the material is going in a bad direction. And you have to call out bad stuff as it happens, not wait for weeks to give an ambiguous summary of things you are unhappy about. Don't nit-pick, but feedback has to be timely and precise for it to be effective. It may be something as simple as "Hmmm... that last thing you played at the end of the verse just wasn't doing it for me." Just lay it out there respectfully but without emotion.

It's not surprising that the other guitarist has somewhat of a mentoring role. It's not all bad, but needs to be applied appropriately. Just because he may have more practical band experience doesn't mean that he has a better ear for good music than you or anyone else.

Don't be afraid to move on from the project either.

These are some reasons why having fewer people in a band can sometimes promote more agreement. It's easier to get 3 people to agree than 4, and 4 is easier than 5, etc.

I am the only guitarist in my band. I prefer it that way. It makes life simpler.

Scribbllez

don't be a pansy. He probably does know better than you, and your ego is getting in the way.

I was just recently in a band with a member just like yourself. The thing you're not noticing from your perspective is that he does know what he's talking about, and he does know what he's doing (most likely). Sure, he may not have the drive to put full songs together like you, but he's involved enough to want to change and progress songs from the relative crap that is the first draft of your song (no author publishes the first draft of his book. Its a fact).

get off the high horse that is the "I do everything for the band wagon" and realize that you need to take what your bandmates say at full value, otherwise you're just an ass with a huge ego.

Now with that being said, I do see where you're coming from, and if you want a certain mood, direction, or idea to be expressed in a certain way during x part of song y, explain that to everyone and ask them to come up with something that - TOGETHER - accomplishes that. Writing the base of a song does not entitle you to tell your bandmates what and how to play. If you want that, hire session musicians and call it good. Your role is to provide the initial direction of the band's songs, but after that everything is a team effort. Love it or hate it, that's how a band is successful.

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Ending Autumn

HotspurJr

Meh.

I don't think we're in any position to judge. I've seen far too many very good guitarists who's idea of a strong contribution is putting the spotlight on themselves even when it was incredibly inappropriate.

The issue here is the band's lack of an agreement about what they are. It's entirely possible that there's not a one "right answer" here, but rather a discussion about what the band wants to be. And it's possible that the bassist and new guitarist want the band to be something different from what the TS wants - and that's something they're going to have to come to terms with if they're going to be in a band together.

Try not to think of this as being about right or wrong.