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Old 11-13-2012, 11:17 PM   #1
kyleraycox
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Need to retube my Framus Ruby Riot 2

Getting ready to retube my Framus Ruby Riot 2. Anybody have one of these and have suggestions for tubes? I've always used Tung Sols and love em, but wanted to get some opinions. Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:23 PM   #2
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JJ are the stock answer here, and for good reason. They're great-sounding, well-made tubes by modern standards. They're dark sounding, whereas Tung-Sols are usually pretty bright.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:29 AM   #3
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Going by this map:

http://www.framus.com/media/manuals...iot%20II-en.pdf

I would say you should try a Tung Sol in V2 and maybe V3, then do a JJ ECC83S in V4, V5, and V6, and then a JAN Philips 5751 in V7. As for V8, a JJ EL84 would be your best bet.

If you like the Tun Sols, I would keep one in V2, and you can try one in V3 as well, maybe even V4. Then, do a JAN Philips 5751 in the Phase Inverter spot (V7), as that seems to be the fan favorite here on UG. Then, do the rest in JJ ECC83S (12AX7) tubes. You might even try a few ECC803's from JJ. I know Cathbard really likes those tubes. Then, fo the Power Tube, JJ is the way to go for EL84's.

In general, though you can't go wrong with JJ's in any position. I don't know much about rectifier tubes, as every amp I've ever used has had a SS rectifier, but I'm sure someone else can help you out there
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #4
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I would go with JJ for the rectifier tube as well. Some would beg to differ, but I don't really think that a change in brands in the rectifier tube will have any effect on your tone. But JJ>Sovtek in pretty much every way, including reliability. Unless you have the cash to go find an old British Mullard or Amperex GZ34, I'd go JJ.

Just as an aside, my Mesa Stiletto uses a tube rec (it can switch between that and a solid state rec). It uses a 5U4GB rec tube, but I have used a GZ34 in it as well. That's where a tonal difference can be made, between types of rec tubes. The GZ34 is about the stoutest rectifier tube made, meaning it provides the most current for the amp to use. A solid state rectifier is pretty much able to provide all 120V from the wall to the amp, meaning it creates a generally tighter, faster response. Tube rectifiers "sag" a little, meaning not all of the 120V gets to the amp. This can create a looser response and earlier breakup. As for different rec tubes, the GZ34 provides more current than a 5U4GB, so it sags less and the power tubes sometimes distort later. That's a very basic elemental explanation on that topic.

SO, all that to say this: If you feel like doing some test-n-tune with rec tubes, you might be able to use a 5U4 in place of that GZ34 if you want more power sag, a looser feel, or less headroom. But definitely do your research on your amp to make sure that will work ok.

Totally confused? Get in touch with Cathbard!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #5
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Any time I see a "what tube" thread, I pretty much just ramble on about JJ's to keep it bumped until Cath shows up to give more in-depth advice. Most of the advice I give is what I've learned from him.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #6
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Yeah same here!

I do like the recommendations you made. That's a solid mix of preamp tubes, particularly that 5751.

I do notice a couple things looking at that tube layout pdf: kyle you might want to take care using a Tung-Sol in V3 or V4 because it looks like those positions are driving a tone stack, which could very well be cathode follower stages, which I've repeatedly read that Tung-Sols (and EHX btw) don't like. They seem to get overpowered and blow up in cathode followers V6 is a 12at7 for the reverb driver but an ECC83 will work there. I'm pretty sure the same goes for V5, the FX loop driver.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:20 AM   #7
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Honestly, he might be better off to use the JJ ECC803 in V5 and V6. I didn't realize those were lower-gain tubes, due to skimming mist of that

That 5751 recommendation is actually something I picked up off of 311. I honestly still need to get one for my amp. I'm not really sure why I haven't yet, to be honest. I suppose I just didn't think about it

The only reason I didn't worry about recommending the Tung Sols for those tone stack spots is because he said he has bee using all Tung Sols. I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a cathode follower, though, he could just be lucky so far

I was thinking if he likes the tone they give, that will keep their better properties, such as being bright and kinda scooped, then let the JJ's fill out the tone from there. I run Tung Sols in V1 and V2 on my amp, then JJ's everywhere else, although I'l gonna be ordering a JAN Philips 5751 for the PI here as soon as I get my new Debit card (losing your wallet sucks )
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
Honestly, he might be better off to use the JJ ECC803 in V5 and V6. I didn't realize those were lower-gain tubes, due to skimming mist of that


True. Of course either one will work. 12at7s get used in applications like 'verb drivers b/c of the higher voltage currents they can supply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
That 5751 recommendation is actually something I picked up off of 311. I honestly still need to get one for my amp. I'm not really sure why I haven't yet, to be honest. I suppose I just didn't think about it


They're great little tubes. I use one in the input of my Ultra+, and I've had one in PI of my Quick Rod at times. If I can get my hands on some more, I'll give em a shot in my Stiletto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
The only reason I didn't worry about recommending the Tung Sols for those tone stack spots is because he said he has bee using all Tung Sols. I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a cathode follower, though, he could just be lucky so far


You're right, I didn't even think about that. My QR came with Tung Sols in all of the preamp slots. I used them for about 2 years before changing them, and I think they'd still be useable in a pinch. So we can probably take the whole cathode follower thing with a grain of salt. Just like everything we read in teh internetz!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blktiger0
I was thinking if he likes the tone they give, that will keep their better properties, such as being bright and kinda scooped, then let the JJ's fill out the tone from there. I run Tung Sols in V1 and V2 on my amp, then JJ's everywhere else, although I'l gonna be ordering a JAN Philips 5751 for the PI here as soon as I get my new Debit card (losing your wallet sucks )


Yeah that would suck! I been fortunate so far not to lose mine, but stuff happens. If TS has the money he can get his hands on a full set of both brands and mix and match at will. I don't have a single amp that has all the same brand/type of preamp tubes in it BTW have you tried JJ's new 5751? It's on my to-do list. KailM recently got one and posted a review of it thru his 6505, but he was mainly comparing it to JJ 12at7s and 12ax7s. I want to compare it to the JAN Philips, RCA, or GE 5751s and see how it stacks up.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:42 AM   #9
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I might look into grabbing both, but I'm not sure if I have the extra money at the moment. If I do, I'll most definitely post a review on here. I know Cath would be interested, if he hasn't already tried them. I have a plethora of tubes that I want to grab a few of to try in different positions. I haven't got to play with the JJ ECC803, Sovtek LPS, or JAN Philips 5751, and I want to try a set of JJ KT77's in my power section. Unfortunately, I was in a pinch when I bought my last set and had to stick with JJ 6L6's, but they're still fantastic tubes. I might even try some E34L's in it.
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