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Old 11-13-2012, 01:30 AM   #1
amit190
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what is the next step?

hi!
im playing an electric guitar for 5 years ,my goal is to improvise over songs and backing tracks.
i dont care about speed and tecnique,i dont like to remember solos and tabs-just want to make original solos..(and do it without a teacher)

i know some patterns but im too monotonic,probobly i dont use them right...
i started to learn some theory- chord construction,keys,notes and intervals..
i remember almost all the notes on the fretboard (remember the place of the note not the sound of it)
i can take a key and get the chords and a right scale for it ,and i can improvise ove it but still im too monotonic..

what is the next step? how can i improve myself?

thanks guys
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:03 AM   #2
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I'd say stop learning patterns, first. You end up teaching yourself a certain shape, and it gets hard to play anything outside that shape. That was the case with me, anyway. I did that for years, and it's really holding me back now.

The easiest way to learn how to write solos is to learn solos. You can write solos just from learning scales, but those tend to be a little boring. When you learn solos (by ear, preferably), you learn what sounds good, not just what SHOULD sound good.

Since I started learning things by ear, my improvising skills have shot through the roof (by comparison to before, I still suck at improv), and my writing has been getting better, as well.

The more you learn, the more you know.


What exactly does monotonic mean?
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:14 AM   #3
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Yep learn some solos.... and change the licks you've learned around a little bit.... that'll bring some variation to your soloing
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:25 AM   #4
amit190
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What exactly does monotonic mean? [/QUOTE]

monotonic means-if i play 10 solos for 10 different songs 8 of them will sound the same more or less
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:14 AM   #5
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I would recommend to learn how to play with a few different genres such as hard rock, jazz, metal, blues, anything(something you like but haven't considered learning) in guitar until you can jam out.

You should also play with more people, you can learn so much by listening to how every player approaches their instrument (and you'll develop what kind of feel you like in your solos for different type of songs). My favorite experience was jammin with a jazz player, even though i was into more metal/hard rock
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:35 AM   #6
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Just put on the radio and play along with every song. Sometimes you'll hit on some really cool stuff. A lot of times you won't. You get better with repetition. But also, just make up new stuff, all the time. Anytime you have an idea, or hear something cool, run with it. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a song, if you feel something, follow it. Thats what I've been doing for a year or two now, and I've gotten to the point that I write songs mostly by improvising now.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit190
hi!
im playing an electric guitar for 5 years ,my goal is to improvise over songs and backing tracks.
i dont care about speed and tecnique,i dont like to remember solos and tabs-just want to make original solos..(and do it without a teacher)

i know some patterns but im too monotonic,probobly i dont use them right...
i started to learn some theory- chord construction,keys,notes and intervals..
i remember almost all the notes on the fretboard (remember the place of the note not the sound of it)
i can take a key and get the chords and a right scale for it ,and i can improvise ove it but still im too monotonic..

what is the next step? how can i improve myself?

thanks guys


I could understand speed, but why would any musician in their right mind deny technique which makes up... 100% of your playing, physically at least.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:19 AM   #8
amit190
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Originally Posted by Aralingh
I could understand speed, but why would any musician in their right mind deny technique which makes up... 100% of your playing, physically at least.


i dont deny technique ,i just say that at the moment with my current technique- if ill improve my phrasing levels i will be way better than if i will improve my technique....
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:31 AM   #9
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But with better technique comes better phrasing. No use playing lil wayne soloes with your thumb if all you hear in your head is sweeps.

Also, the next step is either the one in front, or behind you, depending on your frequency of changing direction.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit190
hi!
im playing an electric guitar for 5 years ,my goal is to improvise over songs and backing tracks.
i dont care about speed and tecnique,i dont like to remember solos and tabs-just want to make original solos..(and do it without a teacher)


my first question would be "why"? that's like saying you want to learn to write stories in russian, but you don't want to learn how to read stories in russian, and you don't want to have someone teach you.

being self-taught isn't a badge of honor. not even if you're really good. i'm self-taught, but it doesn't make me appreciate how far i've gotten any more, and i certainly don't use it to impress people. i don't even mention how i learned what i learned unless i'm specifically asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit190
i know some patterns but im too monotonic,probobly i dont use them right...
i started to learn some theory- chord construction,keys,notes and intervals..
i remember almost all the notes on the fretboard (remember the place of the note not the sound of it)
i can take a key and get the chords and a right scale for it ,and i can improvise ove it but still im too monotonic..

what is the next step? how can i improve myself?

thanks guys


so you're too monotonous? that probably has something to do with you having little to no experience. to further utilize the russian analogy -- going as far as assuming you might even speak the language fluently, you might not be able to write a coherent story. look at the 1,000,000,000+ speakers of mandarin chinese in the world - do you think that each and every one of them could write a coherent story just because they speak the language? no - there are techniques, styles, and concepts that make for a good story that they might not be aware of.

your philosophy on technique is also extremely backwards. you can say you don't care about your technique, but if your technique can't accommodate the things you hear and want to write, you have to get someone else to play it for you. at that point, why even play the instrument? to utilize the russian analogy even further -- say you want to write that story, and you may even know the concepts of writing a good, coherent story. problem is, you only know 4,200 words in russian, and your grammar is somewhat shaky. as great as the idea for the story you have might be, you won't be able to express it well -- ultimately, it will be stilted, and will fall completely short of your expectations.

you need to train your ear, as well. knowing the place of the notes does you little good if you don't know their sound (particularly in context, not saying you need perfect pitch). think of it like painting a picture - you have your canvas, and you have a palette with several different colors of paint. however, on the palette, you do not know which color is which - you see them all as grey. even if know where to find blue, where to find red, how to make purple from the two, and son on -- well, you can very well go ahead and paint your picture, but you won't be able to have a solid handle on your craft. you won't be able to understand what you're doing because you lack the ability to see the project as a whole. you're only looking at it piece by piece. "this one is red, and i want it here. okay, let's make that red. now what? i don't know -- all i know is that i wanted that place over there to be red, so i found red and made it red, but i don't know what else will work with it."

i've pointed out some salient issues with your perception of music and your thought process of guitar that will be crucial to rectify if you want to improve. long story short - if you want to see some results, you need to change the way you think.

now you know what to do, and you can definitely do it - you just need to be open-minded, have the discipline, and be willing to put in the effort.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit190
i dont like to remember solos and tabs-just want to make original solos..(and do it without a teacher)
You're setting yourself up to fail right there.

I'm not saying you CAN'T do it without learning solos, but it's going to make it way harder.

Just learn solos. You may not enjoy it, but the best way to learn music is to just do it.

Also, I don't think you mean monotonic. I believe you mean monotonous.
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Last edited by food1010 : 11-13-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #12
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Well, seems like some good advice is in here....

Some things I want to stress: Avoid patterns.

Sure, patterns make it easy to play, but you fear you are "monotonous" in your playing. I went through this same thing, like so many others. Instead of learning the chord shapes, learn the notes in scales, then learn some chord construction.

You dont want to learn solo's but you want to solo? Good luck. Harsh, I know, but c'mon man, this is.... offensive. Learn solos, learn solos from genres you have never listened to. Learn entire songs. But do it by ear, no tabs. If you can, try notating the songs in the staff.

You want to forgo working on technique to focus on becoming better musically? I know that feel bro. Im pretty tight technically - I spent a lot of time on that. My ear is shit. I can't write worth shit. When someone asks me to play what I hear over/under a progression, I freeze. But, you can't just stop working on technique. You need that to play what you hear, and you need to hear what you want to play to use the technique.

Sorry but Im basically saying what others have said: Ear training, technique practice, learn songs by ear. Simple, right?

I wish you luck on your future endeavors!
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
my first question would be "why"? that's like saying you want to learn to write stories in russian, but you don't want to learn how to read stories in russian, and you don't want to have someone teach you.

being self-taught isn't a badge of honor. not even if you're really good. i'm self-taught, but it doesn't make me appreciate how far i've gotten any more, and i certainly don't use it to impress people. i don't even mention how i learned what i learned unless i'm specifically asked.



so you're too monotonous? that probably has something to do with you having little to no experience. to further utilize the russian analogy -- going as far as assuming you might even speak the language fluently, you might not be able to write a coherent story. look at the 1,000,000,000+ speakers of mandarin chinese in the world - do you think that each and every one of them could write a coherent story just because they speak the language? no - there are techniques, styles, and concepts that make for a good story that they might not be aware of.

your philosophy on technique is also extremely backwards. you can say you don't care about your technique, but if your technique can't accommodate the things you hear and want to write, you have to get someone else to play it for you. at that point, why even play the instrument? to utilize the russian analogy even further -- say you want to write that story, and you may even know the concepts of writing a good, coherent story. problem is, you only know 4,200 words in russian, and your grammar is somewhat shaky. as great as the idea for the story you have might be, you won't be able to express it well -- ultimately, it will be stilted, and will fall completely short of your expectations.

you need to train your ear, as well. knowing the place of the notes does you little good if you don't know their sound (particularly in context, not saying you need perfect pitch). think of it like painting a picture - you have your canvas, and you have a palette with several different colors of paint. however, on the palette, you do not know which color is which - you see them all as grey. even if know where to find blue, where to find red, how to make purple from the two, and son on -- well, you can very well go ahead and paint your picture, but you won't be able to have a solid handle on your craft. you won't be able to understand what you're doing because you lack the ability to see the project as a whole. you're only looking at it piece by piece. "this one is red, and i want it here. okay, let's make that red. now what? i don't know -- all i know is that i wanted that place over there to be red, so i found red and made it red, but i don't know what else will work with it."

i've pointed out some salient issues with your perception of music and your thought process of guitar that will be crucial to rectify if you want to improve. long story short - if you want to see some results, you need to change the way you think.

now you know what to do, and you can definitely do it - you just need to be open-minded, have the discipline, and be willing to put in the effort.

I hope I'm never the guy in the supermarket who asks you where the milk aisle is!!
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It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by 91RG350
I hope I'm never the guy in the supermarket who asks you where the milk aisle is!!


dude, i only know about philosophy and music

i don't know where the hell to buy milk, i'd probably end up going to a butcher
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by deathbycontrol
I'd say stop learning patterns, first. You end up teaching yourself a certain shape, and it gets hard to play anything outside that shape. That was the case with me, anyway. I did that for years, and it's really holding me back now.


Amen to that.

Quote:
The easiest way to learn how to write solos is to learn solos. You can write solos just from learning scales, but those tend to be a little boring. When you learn solos (by ear, preferably), you learn what sounds good, not just what SHOULD sound good.


Amen to that too.

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The more you learn, the more you know.


As it happens I have found that the more I learn the more I forget, but I'm an old fart so that probably accounts for that.


Quote:
What exactly does monotonic mean?


Google: Define monotonic

Adjective:

1: (of a function or quantity) Varying in such a way that it either never decreases or never increases.
2: Speaking or uttered with an unchanging pitch or tone.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by AeolianWolf
dude, i only know about philosophy and music

i don't know where the hell to buy milk, i'd probably end up going to a butcher


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Old 11-14-2012, 05:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit190
hi!
im playing an electric guitar for 5 years ,my goal is to improvise over songs and backing tracks.
i dont care about speed and tecnique,i dont like to remember solos and tabs-just want to make original solos..(and do it without a teacher)

i know some patterns but im too monotonic,probobly i dont use them right...
i started to learn some theory- chord construction,keys,notes and intervals..
i remember almost all the notes on the fretboard (remember the place of the note not the sound of it)
i can take a key and get the chords and a right scale for it ,and i can improvise ove it but still im too monotonic..

what is the next step? how can i improve myself?

thanks guys

You need to start transcribing solos, by other instruments as well.

You'll kill two birds with one stone in a sense that you'll be learning how to phrase, and developing your ear at the same time.

Once you've transcribed some lines, figure out the harmony (chords) that they will work over. There are usually many.

I doubt you'll do any of that, though. It takes discipline, hard work and perseverence. You get back what you put in mate.

You gotta enjoy it as well. And the better you get, the more you will.

Last edited by mdc : 11-14-2012 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdc
You need to start transcribing solos, by other instruments as well.

You'll kill two birds with one stone in a sense that you'll be learning how to phrase, and developing your ear at the same time.

Once you've transcribed some lines, figure out the harmony (chords) that they will work over. There are usually many.

I doubt you'll do any of that, though. It takes discipline, hard work and perseverence. You get back what you put in mate.

You gotta enjoy it as well. And the better you get, the more you will.


thanks for the replays..

yep i meant monotonous-sorry about my english..
im not going to avoid transcribe solos or working on my technique ,its just that i already know how to do that-the thing i want to know is how to apply the theory when i play...

i found ths nice ebook called "the complete idiots guide to music composition" i read some chapters and it really helps...
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:02 AM   #19
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Yeah, you should definitely ignore everything said here. none of these points are valid, and AeolianWolf is just a ****** who writes book length posts for fun, not for your help.

Good job bro.

/sarcasm
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:10 AM   #20
Hail
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wait why do you want to learn to write solos and not learn to train your ear/write the other 99.999% of music/play cleanly/learn other peoples' music

the guitar world really overhypes improvisation and soloing. what's the point of playing off the top of your head or in the forefront if you can't do anything else?
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