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Old 09-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #1
LyricalPoet777
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Guitar eq and Bass amp?

I've been toying with this idea for a while but wanted to get the educated public's opinion.
I know some bass amps work great for guitar, but sometimes the speakers don't get along very well. My idea was if I could get my hands on a bass amp, or a normal guitar amp and put bass speakers, could I use an eq unit to only funnel low end sounds through it? It works in theory, but I don't know jack about frequencies and such.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:09 PM   #2
Dave_Mc
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don't quote me on any of this

I think it really depends on whether you're talking about modern or vintage-style kit.

there are certain vintage things which were originally meant to be bass gear which guitarists kinda co-opted because they sounded good- e.g. fender bassman amp, 55Hz celestion speakers. In those instances, you can just use them as guitar gear. They won't make your guitar sound like a bass, though, it'll sound like a guitar.

I'm not too sure about doing what I think it sounds like you want to do- I'm guessing you mean you're wondering if you run your guitar through bass kit (and maybe some filters) if it'll sound like a bass? I really don't know, but I doubt it. You'd likely need some form of pitch-shifting ability, really.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:26 PM   #3
technoguyx
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Yes, you could use an EQ in the effects loop or before the input of the amp, to reduce the treble content (if that's really the problem; I don't think it is), but it probably won't sound good.

Bass amps are obviously not meant to be used for guitar, so you'll always struggle to get a decent tone through one. The Fender Bassman is just an exception to the rule, since it happened to sound good with guitar.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:48 PM   #4
LyricalPoet777
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I was really trying to use it to handle alot of the low end, wether it be a bass amp or guitar amp with bass speakers. I don't have the scratch to do this, but thought it would be cool someday. It would be running tandem with some other amp, this would be for the "low end" of the signal, an amp specifically to handle bass tones, y'dig?
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalPoet777
I was really trying to use it to handle alot of the low end, wether it be a bass amp or guitar amp with bass speakers. I don't have the scratch to do this, but thought it would be cool someday. It would be running tandem with some other amp, this would be for the "low end" of the signal, an amp specifically to handle bass tones, y'dig?


I think I get what you're saying. You want to run, say, the low mids and the bass parts of the EQ band through a bass amp and the high mids and treble through a guitar amp, right?

I'm pretty sure I do actually have the equipment to do this and I might try it later (gotta run some errands) and get back to you.

My guess is that it's not going to matter much (at most maybe give a fuller sound) just because of what they're built to handle. I mean, a bass guitar is an octave lower than the 4 'bass' strings of a guitar, and that's what a bass amp does well. I dunno. It's an interesting question.

If I do do this, I'll be running a 'bassier' side of the signal through an Ampeg BA-112 and the the 'trebly' side of the signal through a Marshall AVT-50. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:31 PM   #6
LyricalPoet777
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cool. Thats exactly what I was thinking. Good luck.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:32 AM   #7
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Ok, I know it's been like a week since I said I'd do this, but I tried. I tried with like 6 combinations and for some reason nothing seemed to be able to run both amps in tandem.

My best guess is because I'm running a pedal board, It wouldn't allow me to split the signal, but I'm not sure (I have a splitter but it wouldn't split the signal like that).

To be sure though, I double tracked guitars through both amps (which was sketchy because the Ampeg doesn't have an effects loop) using the frequency split idea, basically using my MXR 10-band EQ to allow only certain frequencies through each amp.

The result was honestly less than satisfactory. There was a difference, but it wasn't something that sounded like it'd be worth it. In other words, if I could figure out how to truly split the signal for a live sound, I wouldn't bother. The bass sound really wasn't much better coming through a Bass amp which goes back to my earlier hypothesis that the reason Bass amps are what they are is that they handle the frequencies that are produced by a Bass guitar (which is what, 70hz lower-ish?) better than the guitar amp that works a much higher frequency.

I think the only thing that might make any semblance of a difference is maybe if you were playing in something like Drop B and needed more low end while you're chugging out an open low B, but even then that could be easily fixed by EQing the amp or an EQ pedal to do that sort of work.

Conclusion being it's not really worth it. I could see some thrash band using 5 regular guitar amps and maybe 1 or 2 bass amps in tandem for a single guitar (assuming they're richer than Maiden), but it really was a failed experiment in that regard.

Last edited by mjones1992 : 09-29-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 09-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #8
dspellman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalPoet777
I was really trying to use it to handle alot of the low end, wether it be a bass amp or guitar amp with bass speakers. I don't have the scratch to do this, but thought it would be cool someday. It would be running tandem with some other amp, this would be for the "low end" of the signal, an amp specifically to handle bass tones, y'dig?


Steve Lukather has, for some years, used a subwoofer designed by ISP Techologies called the Vector SL: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampl...uitar-subwoofer

It's a separate cabinet that fits under most 4x12s, that has 600W of amplifier built into a ported cabinet that houses a 15" subwoofer. You plug your 100W (or whatever) tube amp's output into the subwoofer first, where the lows are stripped out and fed to that 600W amplifier (it takes a lot more power to produce low notes than it does mids or highs). From there, another cable takes the mids and highs back to your normal guitar cabinet.



There are a lot of other options like this. ISP Technologies also makes what looks like a 4x12 cabinet called the Vector. http://www.isptechnologies.com/portfolio/vector/

It's actually two separate cabinets within one housing, with a pair of normal 12" GT12 guitar speakers arranged vertically on one side and a 15" subwoofer with a 4" voice coil and a 400W RMS amplifier in a ported chamber on the other. It can be used with any standard guitar head, and the mids and highs will come through the 12" speakers, with the lows channeled into the subwoofer chamber (down to 50Hz).



I've heard both of these, and they produce awesome punch for extended range guitar players.
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Old 09-29-2013, 12:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mjones1992
Ok, I know it's been like a week since I said I'd do this, but I tried. I tried with like 6 combinations and for some reason nothing seemed to be able to run both amps in tandem.


You were missing some engineering <G>.
Essentially you needed a crossover somewhere in the mix, either before the amplifiers or after.

I have a speaker cabinet from the very early '70's that's huge, closed back and ported -- 48" x 30" x 14". There are two 15" Altec Lansing 418-8A's in there, and they'll handle some serious power and go very low. There's a crossover that shunts mids and highs to a horn driver. The cabinet goes very low and very high, and with the old 275W solid state head that drives it, it's an extended range player's dream. Except for the size and weight.

There are options. One of the easiest is to grab a cabinet that will not only handle power, but will also handle low lows and high highs. The Carvin TS-1503 is a huge bargain for this at around $269. It's marketed as a PA speaker, but I've known folks who use it as a bass cabinet (bass players generally want a full-range cabinet these days, not *just* one that will handle bass frequencies). It'll handle up to 600-800W of power and has a 15" sub, a 6" mids and a tweeter, each separated by crossovers. It'll go much lower than, say, a Marshall 4x12 and it will do so with much greater clarity. It'll also handle highs, which means that even your djenting will have definition. At around 60 pounds, it's a great piece. http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/LS1503



I'm doing a lot of modeled guitar, some bass, and keyboards, so I need the ability to handle nearly anything, and that includes some serious power. I'm using a pair of even lighter 15/6/1 type speakers -- fEARless F115s. They're lighter and more compact, but are designed to be able to handle even more power (750-900W), and they have one edge whacked to allow them to be used as wedge-type monitors OR they can be stacked vertically or horizontally. http://bnaaudio.com/products/products.htm
About 26 x 20 x 17", and 40-47 lbs (depending on construction materials).

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Old 09-29-2013, 05:05 PM   #10
MaggaraMarine
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I don't really get using too much bass frequencies on a guitar sound. If you play in a band, let the bass handle them (and same in the studio). That's what bass guitar is for. You'll just end up sounding muddy if you have too much bass frequencies on your guitar sound. I was at Ozzy Osbourne gig where Zakk Wylde had this super muddy sound with lots of bass frequencies. When he palm muted, you couldn't hear anything but boom boom boom coming out of his amp. There was no note definition.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #11
LyricalPoet777
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Point taken, I don't really want to sound like im playing through a carpet, i was just wondering if it was a neat idea or not, so far i've gathered: on paper it sounds good, in real life its pointless. Thanks anyways guys.

Keep on keepin on.
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