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Old 11-17-2012, 05:03 PM   #21
Junior#1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astholkohtz
i highly doubt that.

i'll never tell you that your method is wrong, because i have never tried it. it is, however, very non-standard. in fact, it's much different from what instructors usually teach, so, if i were you, i'd be very careful to say what you did in this thread, especially if your main intention is giving good pieces of advice.

You clearly have no idea who you are talking to. Zaphod has proven himself to be not only a great guitarist, but also one of the foremost people to listen to in terms of technique and theory on this site.

With that said, exercises have their place when it comes to learning, as do songs. My approach to it is to use exercises to gain an understanding of how to use certain techniques, but use songs to practice the techniques. If you just practice an exercise over and over, you will get very good at using whatever technique(s) in that certain pattern. But if you then attempt to learn a song that uses the same technique but a different pattern, you will be no further ahead than you were before you started running through the exercise.
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Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:16 PM   #22
astholkohtz
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then your approach is not much different than mine. what's the big deal?
keep in mind that the stuff i say here is basically what i've been taught by 2 really awesome instructors (and musicians), that i personally know and look up to. i don't know zaphod.

i won't rephrase my suggestion again, but you guys are just quoting what i said, and taking it to the extreme of "not ever playing any song, it's useless, only do exercises because it's the only source of improvement"

the guy's question was very simple: how to get faster. i suggested not to make the mistake of picking up a song which involves techniques he doesn't know, in which case he should build up the basis with some exercises. that's exactly what you do.

i get the impression you're just irritated because you feel i disrespected zaphod (which i did not intend to do).

example: i decided i want to get as fast as possible on alternate picking, both because i want to play a couple of songs which require that, and because i want to write my own fast runs. i practise on all the seven 3nps boxes with the metronome. this has proven to be very useful both in playing other people's music, and my little licks.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:36 PM   #23
W4RP1G
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I'm a believer in learning new techniques outside of a song. I really don't see why that's a bad idea?

Seems like people are bickering over nothing.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #24
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Agreed with junior, as someone who has just started trying to improve his fast playing, choosing a few typical 3nps exercises and a song to apply them to has helped me. I'd also take a look at legato licks, combining the two can be very effective.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:00 PM   #25
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Everyone can play fast... If you can play slow, you can play fast. Its a matter of practice and muscle memory. this thread reminds me of myself saying i cant play barre chords........
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_One
if you can't walk, then it's impossible to run...

means that if you can't play any fast lick slowly, then its impossible to play it fast


I've seen many guitarist who can run but can't really walk!!!
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm a believer in learning new techniques outside of a song. I really don't see why that's a bad idea?

Seems like people are bickering over nothing.


I think the general idea Is

Do you play a song to learn a technique
or learn a technique to play a song

I think you have to find what works for you.
personally i would move away from the song to learn the technique first
as have got to frustrated and going down the song route.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #28
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Every lick that you would learn in a song is fundamentally the same as any exercise you would do though...
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astholkohtz
the guy's question was very simple: how to get faster. i suggested not to make the mistake of picking up a song which involves techniques he doesn't know, in which case he should build up the basis with some exercises. that's exactly what you do.


How is it any different learning a technique from an arbitrary exercise than a section from a song?

Both are passages of notes. Whether you use one in a song or not is irrelevant.

If I use an exercise in a song, is it suddenly unsuitable to be practiced by someone because it is a passage in a song and not an exercise any more? ...


Quote:
example: i decided i want to get as fast as possible on alternate picking, both because i want to play a couple of songs which require that, and because i want to write my own fast runs. i practise on all the seven 3nps boxes with the metronome. this has proven to be very useful both in playing other people's music, and my little licks.


Unless the songs have licks which use the seven 3nps boxes in the exact way you practice them, you'll be able to make quicker progress by practicing the licks in the song instead of the 3nps boxes.

You have provided no good reasons why someone should practice exercises instead of practicing a section of a song as an exercise. Both will improve your technique since both are passages of notes, but only one gives you musical context. Guess which one it is.

For the record, I went about the "practice exercises all the time" approach for about a year. I made much more progress as a musician AND in my guitar technique by practicing passages from songs as exercises instead. It also gave me the bonuses of learning songs and learning a musical phrase in the correct context, as opposed to learning exercises which I could never use in the vast majority of musical situations.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W4RP1G
I'm a believer in learning new techniques outside of a song. I really don't see why that's a bad idea?

Seems like people are bickering over nothing.


That's what I was thinking.

Jimii00 was asking how to play fast and from a purely technical point it shouldn't make a difference if you learn through songs or running exercises.

As for playing fast as macashmack said play slow then speed it up, if you don't push yourself you will just stay but pushing yourself to much may lead to sloppy technique.

As for how long it takes, I can only speak for myself. It took me maybe a year, the earliest video I have of me shredding I'd been playing 1.5 years.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:41 AM   #31
crazytjeuh
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Playing fast is being mentally prepared to move your fingers very fast and especially ACCURATE.
It costed me some time and frustration as well, but in the end it's all muscle memory that you gain by playing things over and over and CORRECT. It's like you learned to ride a bike, a car, preparing an egg, getting through school and all of that.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:47 PM   #32
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Practice scales using a metronome. Turn up the beat 8 counts every time you get comfortable with the speed until you get to 200 every day. If you cant get to 200 then 160 is get spot. I used to spend at least 1hr on just this every day.

You can use virtual guitar tabs. Go to songster.com

You can slow down the tempo of a song so you can slowly increase the tempo until you can play it. Their are programs that use the same set up as songster one of those programs is called guitar pro its a grate tool.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gui8tar
Practice scales using a metronome. Turn up the beat 8 counts every time you get comfortable with the speed until you get to 200 every day. If you cant get to 200 then 160 is get spot. I used to spend at least 1hr on just this every day.

You can use virtual guitar tabs. Go to songster.com

You can slow down the tempo of a song so you can slowly increase the tempo until you can play it. Their are programs that use the same set up as songster one of those programs is called guitar pro its a grate tool.


Just practicing by brute force isn't enough, you need to make sure you're playing everything with good technique as well to get to those kinds of speeds.

Also there are several long posts on this forum about why practicing specifically for speed is a bad idea, I suggest you read the stickied threads since I know one of them is in there somewhere.
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