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Old 11-18-2012, 10:40 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
[physics undergraduate]

Yes, it is expanding. No, we don't know what into. We know there is an "edge of time", though, because we can see reflections from the big bang, meaning there is some sort of "wall" at the edge of the universe. Awesome, huh?

Technically if we compare the speed of light with the time the big bang happened we could find the "size of the universe".
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ripple07
Technically if we compare the speed of light with the time the big bang happened we could find the "size of the universe".

Not really that simple. The universe is expanding faster than light.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
Not really that simple. The universe is expanding faster than light.

Interesting. So Einstein was wrong?
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:46 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by ripple07
Interesting. So Einstein was wrong?

Nah, it's FAR more complex than that. See, as the universe is expanding, it's essentially creating space-time, so in that frame of reference it isn't going faster than light.

Put it this way, if there are no roads, there are no stop signs.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
Nah, it's FAR more complex than that. See, as the universe is expanding, it's essentially creating space-time, so in that frame of reference it isn't going faster than light.

Put it this way, if there are no roads, there are no stop signs.

Interesting. As the universe expands, the laws of physics expand proportionately.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #46
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More that nothing is actually moving faster than light, because nothing is actually moving. There is just more space being created between things.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ripple07
Interesting. As the universe expands, the laws of physics expand proportionately.

Kind of.

Consider this - everything in the universe, ever, and everything that ever has, and everything that will be, has already happened. We are merely experiencing points in time - [x,y,z,t].

As the universe expands into nothing nothing "new" is really being created, but what was always there is displacing itself.

The bad news is the implications for the rest of us.

See, because of Conservation of Energy, all those things flying away to the edge of time are using up kinetic energy. We are also always losing heat energy and doing work.

Eventually this means all energy will be lost in the sense that everything in the universe will be balanced at one temperature, so no work can be done.

This is called the "heat death" theorem. It's how the universe will end.

Damned entropy.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dirge Humani
More that nothing is actually moving faster than light, because nothing is actually moving. There is just more space being created between things.

Space-time.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
Kind of.

Consider this - everything in the universe, ever, and everything that ever has, and everything that will be, has already happened. We are merely experiencing points in time - [x,y,z,t].

As the universe expands into nothing nothing "new" is really being created, but what was always there is displacing itself.

The bad news is the implications for the rest of us.

See, because of Conservation of Energy, all those things flying away to the edge of time are using up kinetic energy. We are also always losing heat energy and doing work.

Eventually this means all energy will be lost in the sense that everything in the universe will be balanced at one temperature, so no work can be done.

This is called the "heat death" theorem. It's how the universe will end.

Damned entropy.


Luckily for us this is still trillions of years away.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:53 PM   #50
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Luckily for us this is still trillions of years away.

Well, it's already happened.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:53 PM   #51
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It isn't just expanding... the rate at which is accelerating. Just think in billions of years you won't be able to see a star in the sky. Dark energy is supposedly the cause.

I'm getting deja vu.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:54 PM   #52
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It isn't just expanding... the rate at which is accelerating. Just think in billions of years you won't be able to see a star in the sky. Dark energy is supposedly the cause.

I'm getting deja vu.


Well, we don't know if Dark Energy or Dark Matter even exist yet.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:59 PM   #53
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^Which is why I said supposedly. Do you have a more entertained idea?
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #54
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Obsceneairwaves
the universe is expanding.


the real question is whether it will keep expanding or start to contract

no, that's been answered already
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Dirge Humani
More that nothing is actually moving faster than light, because nothing is actually moving. There is just more space being created between things.


Yeah, nothing moves faster than light, and that's exactly what "nothing" is doing. Because all this "nothing" is taking over the universe, as if "nothing" is supposed to exist instead of something.

Well, I don't know really. But it's interesting to note that everything is already mostly empty space. The more you look at some point of reference, the more empty space you find around it. Your arm? Full of cells with empty space around them. Those cells? Full of atoms separated by empty space. Those atoms? Comprised of electrons flying around in empty space, orbiting some tiny nucleus. So on and so forth. And the same thing happens when we look "out" as when we look inward. Our solar system? Some small spheres flying around with a whole bunch of empty space around it. Our galaxy? A big collection of spheres, but a whole lot more empty space around it. So on and so forth.

Empty space.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #57
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Sometimes I wonder if we are actually experiencing time backwards or something, like we didn't really come from the "big bang" but are really falling into some big black hole.

I mean, sure, time is a concept we invented to measure change, and perhaps "now" is the only thing that's real--things are just moving around like magic, and we just use points of reference to measure it with what we call "time"--but the fact that animals perceive time at different rates (i.e. a mosquito can observe smaller, quicker moments of time than a tortoise) shows that time is subjective. What if it's just wired in our brains to perceive time in this forward direction, but the reality is totally different?

Sorry if I'm rambling. What can I say? I'm an existence nerd.

Last edited by MrDo0m : 11-18-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:11 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by MrDo0m
Yeah, nothing moves faster than light, and that's exactly what "nothing" is doing. Because all this "nothing" is taking over the universe, as if "nothing" is supposed to exist instead of something.

Well, I don't know really. But it's interesting to note that everything is already mostly empty space. The more you look at some point of reference, the more empty space you find around it. Your arm? Full of cells with empty space around them. Those cells? Full of atoms separated by empty space. Those atoms? Comprised of electrons flying around in empty space, orbiting some tiny nucleus. So on and so forth. And the same thing happens when we look "out" as when we look inward. Our solar system? Some small spheres flying around with a whole bunch of empty space around it. Our galaxy? A big collection of spheres, but a whole lot more empty space around it. So on and so forth.

Empty space.


Except empty space has mass, just not all the time. Things like electrons don't exist as "points in space", rather they have a probability of being in a certain place in a certain time. We can't know where it is, its energy, its momentum and its point in time with any certain. Only one. That is, we can either know its energy accurately or where it is in time. We can either know how fast it is, or where it is. It's called the Heisenburg uncertanity principle and applied to something like an atom this suggests that lot of it is, indeed, empty space, but there is always a chance of SOMETHING appearing, even if just for an infinitesimally small period of time. This is what dark energy is theorised to be - pairs of particles and antiparticles appearing randomly and annihilating, so the "empty space" has mass, but you can't observe what's there.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:13 PM   #59
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Also, I'm sure your girl is going to leave you.

If he keeps smoking weed and doesn't grow up a bit, yeah.

TS, go study some astrophysics. Then it'll all make sense.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #60
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If he keeps smoking weed and doesn't grow up a bit, yeah.

TS, go study some astrophysics. Then it'll all make sense.

Protip-

it doesn't.
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