mdc

There are scales like Dorian, Lydian Dominant that are very useful in certain progressions. Certainly some modern blues/fusion progressions where the chords can sometimes be moving fairly slowly (one chord every 2 bars or more).

It's a mode, you're using a mode, but not in the truly traditional way that modes are meant to be used (back in the dawn of time).

Depending on the context of a dominant chord in a progression, it can be very suited to the Lydian dominant scale. A mode of Melodic Minor. Nothing wrong with saying it's a mode of Melodic Minor. Nothing wrong with that at all.

These modes and scales don't exist for nothing. We can use them. And use them in their just context, and not "major scale with accidentals" or "minor scale with accidentals".

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Sweet

HotspurJr

This is why MT makes my head spin. Here we have a context that you admit is useful - you admit that you use it yourself. And yet if somebody hadn't pushed back, a basic piece of very useful knowledge would have been lost:

CST is something that lots of really skilled musicians use to improvise.

I don't know why you would assume that, from the context in which I brought it up, we were talking about Mozart minuets rather than contemporary jazz improvisation. Especially because I brought it up in the context of using a scale in place of chords - so how on earth do we get to me talking about an "analytical approach."

CST is a valid improvisational approach used by a lot of great musicians. In a CST context, the Mixolydian scale is considered a dominant scale, not a major scale, because it is the scale you use to replace dominant chords. Why is that so freakin' complicated?

Hail

most of those people who say they think in scales probably aren't thinking in scales

remember that it's a lot easier to sell a book when it's 'let me show you the secrets of all these scale shapes' rather than 'let me show you how i got good at the fundamentals of chord tones and established good phrasing through studying and understanding the works of musicians that influenced me throughout my time as a musician'

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AeolianWolf

sorry, was the logic here too tough for you to follow? i'll try to be a little clearer for the peanut gallery next time.

nobody needed to push back. the first ****ing sentence i said in this thread was "CST is an improvisational tool." don't believe me? go back and read it. the post is unedited, go have fun with that.



because modality is useless as an analytical system, unless you want to write in the pre-17th century style. it's far more important to understand tonality before getting into CST - not doing so is a mistake than waves and waves of rank amateurs make.

you're talking about using a scale over chords - how is that not analysis?



i wouldn't use CST unless the chord changes were non-diatonic and went by at rapid speeds (and i'm improvising, not composing). in all other accounts, there's no reason to use CST - think in keys. unless, of course, wankery is your thing. then, by all means, go ahead and do it. go play A mixolydian over an A7 chord in the key of G major. if your ability to function within a key is that poor, that's pretty much your only option.

and dominant is a function, not a type of scale. the dominant scale doesn't exist. you can call it a dominant scale, but it means nothing more than calling it "greg" or "call of duty". hell, in a twelve bar blues, the only true dominant chord is the V7 - I7 and IV7, despite being the same quality of chord, are not "dominant seventh" chords. they have come to be called as such, and it's great to be aware of the common practice (misnomer or otherwise), but they're not truly dominant chords, and, as such, the "dominant scale" is just a nickname. mixolydian is a major mode.

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Hail

from now on major is greg and minor is call of duty

let's see if it catches on from there

would make more sense than ionian and aeolian. and CoD would probably pay me and joseph for making their shitty ass games some $$

i think i've said before that improvisation is little more than composition in real-time and while tricks will help you out, you'll plateau in your creativity and success unless you can approach your melodies in as sophisticated a manner as sitting with your instrument or in front of your DAW and understanding your phrasing beyond throwing shapes at a wall and hoping they stick because the 7 notes all theoretically will work consonantly no matter how poor your phrasing or general sense of melody and rhythm might be.

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HamrockGuitar

If a Dbmaj7#11 pops up (unrelated to the key) in a Wayne Shorter tune... I think we all know the "go to" scale for that is Ab major. It's always easier to think of changes relating to a tonality whether you are improvising or analyzing... on a ii V I, of course it's clumsy thinking Dorian - Mixolydian - Ionian (it's also a little lame playing it) when it all relates to a key. To say that modes are obsolete or imply that learning the concept is useless, though, is misleading to musicians that don't understand them. The more concepts you understand, the better grasp you have of the "big picture".

HamrockGuitar

To tell someone who is learning to improv over Impressions for the first time to play C Major is going to get a pretty blank stare...

Hail

what the hell are you talking about, i don't think in terms of scales because i have more important things to worry about than note choice when i'm playing music.

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HamrockGuitar

That sucks you "worry" about anything when you are improvising... maybe you should rethink your method.

MaggaraMarine

INB4 mode war.

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macashmack

The modes kill everyone.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

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Modes and scales are intelligent and useful. Start learning them. Seriously.

StayBlack

Modes, not even once.